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In S2 episode 24, Francis Cepero – Director of Vertical Market Solutions at A1 Digital joins the show to talk about all things digital transformation – from what needs to be considered when moving forward with IoT🤔 and the integral role edge computing will play as IoT grows!📈

Sit back, relax, tune in and be the first to discover…

  • Francis’ background in IoT 💫
  • What A1 Digital does and the key solutions they offer 💫
  • What is it that most people get wrong when it comes to developing IoT Solutions? How is A1 Digital helping address these blocks? 💫
  • What use cases are you seeing trend? 💫
  • Why is edge computing so integral, especially as the IoT market grows? 💫
  • What industries do you see edge making the biggest impact?💫

And much more!

ABOUT THE GUESTS

Francis Cepero is the Director Vertical Market Solutions at A1 Digital, an innovative company that realises digitalisation projects together with businesses. Their focus is on industry-specific applications in IoT, as well as cloud-based products for modern workplace and security solutions.

Connect with Francis on LinkedIn Here 

Find out more about A1 Digital Here 

Episode Transcript

Brad King-Taylor
Hello, and welcome to the IoT podcast. I’m your host for today Brad King-Taylor. I’m Head of UK Business for Paratus People. Today we’re joined by Francis Cepero, who is the Director of Vertical Solutions for A1 Digital. Before we get into this, don’t forget, wherever you’re listening or watching on, please subscribe to the podcast. It gives you all the best insight and information for up and coming guests. So Francis, how are you today?

Francis Cepero
Hey, how you doing? Hi, Brad.

Brad King-Taylor
Yeah, very well. Thank you very well, it’s, it’s good to have you on – really appreciate you coming on. So I suppose, right without further ado, it’s probably good that we just get straight into this. So introduce yourself, Francis, let the viewers know who you are your background in the industry and how you got to where you are now with A1 and how you ended up in the crazy sector that we find ourselves in?

Francis Cepero
forever. Good. Thank you very much. And first of all, thank you for having me this great podcast, I think we we’ve been fans of yours for a long time. So we’ve looked at this, we will relate to the like the format. So to my background in IoT I think it’s rather simple. I’m very curious physicist who by means a lot of job changes came to business software company, one of the largest in the world, and then spent some years doing different things from programming technology, to running Enterprise Architecture programmes. In that evolution I came to the IoT world, basically. I used to be innovation, head of innovation technology for that company, which is SAP, I can tell you, and then I spent their times looking into technology and into IoT specifically. And then in 2017, I joined A1 Digital. And so basically, my approach to IoT, I would say I approach this from three different angles. I think the first one is from this kind of your strategic technology perspective, you know, how important is this technology? How do you use it? What are the limits? Then from the organisational leadership side – You know, running the company, running the department, the business unit? Are they one digital that takes a leadership position in this area of IoT and machine learning, and then building the product and the service portfolio as well as the relevant capabilities in the organisation. That’s basically what I that’s my perspective is a little bit of this, I’m not a pure technologis, I’m not a pure business guy. It’s just the mix of both.

Brad King-Taylor
That’s great. Thank you very much for that, Francis it. It sounds like you’ve got a great history and some really good credentials. So that’s a bit about yourself. Can you give us an explanation of what A1 does? And the key solutions that you offer?

Francis Cepero
Yeah. So at A1 Digital, we have one thing. And I believe that we will be repeating this all the time, because this is the only thing that we really care about. Is we only want to keep our clients relevant in face of digital disruption. It’s very simple. It’s really simple statement, right? Why is that? Because we’ve seen our customers and not only our customers, many, many, many companies, especially midsize, smaller, medium sized companies struggle really, really hard when it comes to technology, technology adoption, how to change the company processes, how to adopt new technologies, how to involve new technologies, to get new insights, how to bring new business models, all of this is been hard, very hard to do. It’s becoming very hard to do for for those customers. And what we are doing is we are we are operating as as a service provider, if you wish and solution provider that keeps those customer relevant in the face of digital disruption. So how do we do that? Basically, the way we do this is by having by helping them getting smart assets and Smart Insights in a secure cloud.

Francis Cepero
And there you see the three components of the business the three pillars of the business of A1 Digital. Let’s start from the from the very beginning, which is our cloud out we have a cloud, or in our own European cloud offering, which is what you can see, when you go to exascale.com, you will see our European cloud offering. And all of it is done by, I will say it’s homemade from the bare metal up to the cloud fabric. So that you can get storage, network, and compute plus a layer of platform as a service on top that you can get from from us, that’s exascale.com. It’s a great, great, great cloud service provider to the second pillar of our A1 Digital offering, is the security part. So there we do professional services for our clients, starting with penetration testing, and some sort of assessments around cyber security.

Francis Cepero
But we also take care of next generation software defined networks, where we embed the security into the into the network offering or towards our client. And last but not least, we do basically, in my business unit, which is called vertical markets, we take care of IoT and machine learning related solutions and services. And they range from hardware design framework design, up to, you know, Edge intelligence, connectivity, IoT platforms, private networks, machine learning platforms, so basically, they have the full stack of IoT. And at the end, what we want to do for those customers, which I remind you, they are mostly small and midsize customers, is help them, we really want to help them. And we help them integrate into their their operational technology and the IT business technology. That’s what we’re doing.

Brad King-Taylor
Fantastic. And I think one of the key words there that I’ve picked up on is the word help. I think what you guys are doing from what I can see is really innovative, right? It’s really good. And it looks like you’re going in the right direction. You’re already working among some of the world leaders within your sector. But I think with with what A1 is doing is really that, like you’re there to help and push these companies forward. So I think you’ve helped around about 500 Plus customers at the moment. So what is it that most people are getting wrong, Francis, when it comes to developing those IoT solutions that you touched on? And what is it they’re doing wrong? And how we use as a one, helping them address those problems?

Francis Cepero
That’s a very hard question, Brad. That’s a very good question. Let me let me start, probably by acknowledging that we have yes, indeed, we have over 750 customers right now. And many of them, and I would say many of them, I would even say the majority of them have done the right thing. And they have done the right things. Right. Okay, so we have not seen many customers that I would say, you know, didn’t get it. So they all got it. And they the majority, they got it and they’re really good. And we are really very, very thankful that we got the opportunity to help them on this road has been it with connectivity or with connectivity services, or you know, you name it.

Francis Cepero
But what I’ve seen, in many conversations with non customers and customers as well, there are two things that are I would say, at the bottom of all this, and one is the lack of understanding about what it means to launch a complex IoT based connected product, which is at the end what they all do, they launch some sort of IoT connected product being the machine or being you know, some sort of b2c offering, it doesn’t matter, the end is the thing that gets connectivity, you’ve got real time connection. And that connection is very important, because this is between the end user and them as manufacturer. So that means the end user is expecting that that product will talk back. And they will get some sort of additional service from that information that send it back to the manufacturer. And sometimes we’ve seen those customers not being even ready to receive that information that they just put the connectivity in there. But it’s a connectivity down from a very different angles from from the angle from the outside in from the inside out angle, sorry, which is I want to provide better service to my machines. So I’ll do this but the customer is expecting much more.

Francis Cepero
And so we’ve seen that really understanding all the things about the complexity, both in terms of technologies and in terms of, you know, what kind of organisations do you need to have in order to make that happen? That’s a that’s a one thing that that has been crucial for all of it, right? So are we call, or at least I call IoT products been transformational products, because for the operator for those who use those products, and for those who manufacture those products, there will be a sort of, before and after story, you are a different company once you start using connected products, and you truly are a different company, after you’ve learned how to manufacture and service connected products and sell connected products to the market. And so it’s a huge transformational process that we’ve seen. And when the customer lacks understanding about all the complexity, that’s where things happen. And the second part is when they believe that their IT department can do everything. And then we explain to them that no, you’re at department, you’re lucky, if you’re IT department, you can do some SAP stuff, keep the lights on, but the type of the quantity and quality of knowledge and experience that you need to have, in order to launch an IoT solution. If you didn’t have it before, you won’t have it now, so you need a partner that can help you. And sometimes we are that partner, sometimes we pass the business to other ones who are best suited for that type of business. But we definitely encourage our customers to have this partnership, this understanding first strategic and operational, but also this partnership idea, because it’s a very complex environment in which they are operating when they go into IoT products.

Brad King-Taylor
It’s a great mantra. And you mentioned a couple of times complex, I’m sure I could see it to the viewers be able to see it that that whiteboard behind you looks quite complex. So I don’t know if you’ve read. The transformational thing. I’m quite keen to touch on that. So obviously, you mentioned that things are moving quite quickly and changing. Are there any particular use cases that you’re seeing trend at the moment?

Unknown Speaker
In terms of use cases and trending use cases, so what we are seeing is. So, I think firstly, we don’t have a full visibility of the whole IoT industry, that’s at least I cannot claim this for us because this would be you know, we’d all be it all kind of I would that’s not us. What we definitely are doing is we’re focusing on on six different industries. And this is construction, waste management, retail, manufacturing, then transportation and logistics, obviously, it’s a big play for us, and everything around energies and utilities. So water metering, smart metering and electricity and so on. So right now, for example, we are finalising a project for finalising still running a project delivering a project of 1.2 million smart metres in Western Austria. So this is the type of big complex things that we can do. But we also do very small things like building a tracker for a customer. Right, for some sort of transportation solutions. And so what we are seeing then is in those in those industries, that there are special, I would say special use cases.

Unknown Speaker
So for example, once you use cases we’re seeing is from asset insights, you know, people who wants to see what happens with their assets, where the where are they located? What is their output? What are the quality parameters, so all of the things being those assets, moving assets or stationary assets doesn’t matter much, but it’s basically they want to see just the performance. And it’s all about assets insights, as I said energy consumption, quality control, performance management, energy management, condition monitoring, predictive maintenance, condition based monitoring, by the way. So, these are the main scenarios that we see and then we see something very special, which is the whole area of building a connected product in itself, which is then when we work with manufacturers with original equipment manufacturers, and they tell us okay, so I need connectivity, I need intelligence, I need edge intelligence, how do I get this thing into this machine? Right. So, this is what we are, this is these are the scenarios that we are seeing this is where we are more or less following through in our industries.

Brad King-Taylor
Yeah, amazing. So to take that and, and expand on that a little bit. Trends are always changing, as you touched on and we mentioned that with a trend comes some of the ideas and solutions that that you’ve you’ve gone into a bit there so I think they’re estimated in around 41 point 6 billion devices or something crazy by 2025 which is madness. So obviously as things are progressing through the lifecycle, new things start to happen. So, edge computing, let’s have a little look on that.Why is edge computing so integral when it comes to the IoT market? And the way that that’s growing at the moment?

Francis Cepero
Yes. So that’s let me address maybe at the beginning the whole story about the numbers and forecasts and projections. And I tend not to believe in those numbers. And I, I have I’ve had high very heated discussions with some high level consultants who claim that by 25, I think by year 25, we’ll have 20 something billion connected devices. And I don’t believe we’re going to have that those numbers, we are on a much lower curve. And I don’t also believe that I but I don’t have the numbers to refute. So I don’t have better projections. That’s That’s my point. But I find I find the numbers really hard to believe, and how to count how do you account for 1 billion of anything? How do you account 25? That is incredibly right. And so that’s it. That’s it, I think there’s one thing that is really relevant, which is our business, the business of A1 Digital in the IoT space is being a service provider and a systems integrator, a service and solution provider and a systems integrator of sorts. And so that means that in our business, we are facing a lot, I mean, in a very logical way, a limited repeatability, and limited scalability.

Francis Cepero
So it’s not that we have one business that scales hugely, because that’s what we are trying to enable for our clients. So we ourselves, we don’t see 10 1000s of clients, what we say is 10,000 of devices at one client. So you’re scaling here, not by the number of clients, but by the number of devices. That said, what it what it means basically, is that you will have a go to market, which is by customers of volume, and not by volume of customers. Yeah, so it’s a very different game, as you as the one you have, when you go into the software side into the software side, you scale by the number of clients that you have, here, you scale by the number of devices that your clients have. And so if we look at this, and we look at the number of the say, at where you’re at the end, what we are trying to do as a company, we are trying to, as I said, keep the customers relevant in face of digital disruption, but at the same time, very consistently lower their total cost of ownership for the solutions they create, right?

Francis Cepero
In how do you lower the total cost of ownership of of a digital IoT solution, that’s what edge comes in, what you’re trying to do with Edge, which is edge is all the compute and sensing in the intelligence, if you wish, technology that is deployed outside of the data centre into the into the edge of the Data Fabric basically at the end of the in the device. And so, if we look at that, if we want to capture large number of devices, we need to focus on those highly standardised cases, we need to focus on repeatability at the edge is at the device level. And so that’s when you start pushing the whole process the whole analytical process out of the cloud into the edge, so into the device on the device basically becomes more knowledgeable, more responsive and more autonomous. And that’s these are the three main topics that will lower your total cost of ownership, right. So, the next thing is that when you look at the if you bring connectivity into a manufacturing environment economy, if you bring connectivity via private networks, which is by the way, one of those graphics here, it once you have it in vibe, once you bring private 5g private connectivity, then you start getting something very, very, very special, then you start getting this you know for the first time, the technology fabric and the standards and the right location for the right decision that allows you to put all this decision making industrial operations there where it belongs basically at the edge in the machine. And I would say you know, once you have edge technology you have for the first time, a real time, high resolution management of the enterprise. So you understand the status of every machine in real time. You understand you can predict certain things in real time and one thing that few people are talking about, but I want to make sure that we talked about it. We talked to obvious in thispodcast.

Francis Cepero
Once you have predictions made, based on data that you collect on the edge, those predictions can become input into additional predictions for all the processes. And now you have basically what some big companies called the intelligent enterprise. But that’s the way you you enable this is by instrumenting, the edge with sensors and this kind of sense and react scenarios, once you implement them. Now you know exactly what happens in your company in your company across your manufacturing processes, your secondary infrastructure. And now you can start bringing these things together, and you start raising the efficiency of each one of your operations. Moving costs out and understanding better how to react to unforeseen events in your company. So you can start doing basically scenario planning now you know, what your true capability is, once you have the edge implement. That’s our I think it’s very important to implement an edge strategy in your company today. In any company. Yeah.

Brad King-Taylor
Yeah, super. And I think that was, it was, there was a word in the question that I used integral, I think a lot of stuff you touched on there, improving efficiency, lowering costs, that’s two of the main goals for a lot of companies, right?

Francis Cepero
When you’re in the cloud, right, you have a lot of efficiency gains, because all cloud compute is made more or less equal, right? Let’s take quantum computing outside of the but once you have, so you tried to go to, to start to standard computers to standard computer functions, even to virtual compute functions. And so you have incredible scalability in your cloud operations. This is not what you have, when you’re down to the, to the edge. The edge has limited compute power, limited memory, limited network capabilities. But it connects both fabrics, the operational technology fabric with the IoT fabric, that’s what it does. And so it’s something even if it’s not, it doesn’t scale that well, it’s hugely important, because then it passes information into the cloud based compute and analytics, which do scale. Right, so you have this great two levels, a central level of intelligence with a local level of intelligence

Brad King-Taylor
Amazing. So with that in mind, then out of the, I think you mentioned six industries that you work in, in a you see in edge computing, and really have a impact on any of them in particular, obviously, it’s gonna impact all of them, but any of them jumping out as key winners from this.

Francis Cepero
Yes. So I would say manufacturing is one of those retail could be another one. I believe construction can definition being something that happens at the job site. So the job site in itself is a huge edge environment. And so pushing edge technology into the construction site is something that we are currently testing with. So we’re developing a project with some leading construction companies in Germany, we’re deploying the developing the if you want the the job site of the future, alright, since this is where we are so nice marketing name, but at the end of the day, what we’re trying to do is really bring connectivity and decision making capabilities based on IoT to the construction site of the future. So when you look at industrial manufacturing, with all the use cases we discussed before from maintenance, you know, from condition based monitoring, to prescriptive maintenance, that’s in when you look at industrial manufacturing with quality control. And that is something that I want to say really important, I believe, this includes the whole range of anticipatory quality control practices that you have, where you try to discover the error before it materialises into the system.

Francis Cepero
So for example, when you have a welding gun, and on the on the robot, and by reading the the voltage, the current and temperature on that welding gun, you can imply whether the welding was done at the right quality or not. So you don’t wait until someone down the process finds out that that thing was not what was not a weld properly. So instead of that you do it right at the machine, you know, that the machine did not perform according to the parameters that you were expecting. And how do you do this by bringing machine learning at scale into the machine at the edge, right. And so, energy and emission management so the whole carbon footprints, also super important topics where Edge technology will have a huge impact. And I think these are the scenarios and yes, of course one thing that comes to my mind is that there’s something amazing going on right now in the area of telemedicine, where you have basically diagnostic devices that are being separated from the location of the hospital that are being brought to the patient. And the diagnosis is basically done somewhere else. But the measurement, it’s been done at the patient’s other patients location, which is super, super, super important. So now that we’re thinking about all these crazy scenarios, where some some rural areas don’t have enough doctors, so now this is how you can solve one way of alleviating those problems is by separating biotechnology, the diagnostics from the location of the of the doctor from the location of the hospital, and bringing it down to the patient, what it what is needed most. And so that is something amazing. And this is Edge Technology at its best, actually. Right.

Brad King-Taylor
Yeah, that’s, that’s superb. And that’s going to have a lot of impact on a lot of lives in the right way, even with the with the med tech, like you mentioned, but something you mentioned on making sure that the the welding is right, that that’s potentially a health and safety factor as well. Right. Yes. process. So, edge computing is not just giving you more efficient data, but it’s potentially life saving in some instances. So what are the considerations for you, though, with edge computing, as we move forward with IoT? What are the challenges that you think some of the lesser evolved industry might face?

Francis Cepero
So here’s the thing, Brad, I don’t think that, that I have all the answers in this area, obviously not, I can tell you only the experience that I’ve had, and that we had through A1 Digital, right. So we’ve seen people interpreting the edge as something that you can take just your laptop computer, right, connected to a power supply, connected to a set of sensors, and put it under the bridge. And I’m talking about literally under the bridge, so that you can do some sort of monitoring of special things. And then people are surprised what happens after 2020 days of exposure to the sun to temperature, humidity conditions, which are not designed to you know, the laptop was not designed to comply with this edge conditions. And so this is one of the limitations, right, so when you operate in the edge or at the edge, you’re operating under limiting limit limited conditions, so you have high exposure to temperature to pressure to humidity factors. Even when you when you try to repair edge equipment, you will be exposing for that limited limited period of time, that equipment to excessive humidity, excessive temperature, maybe so all of this needs to be taken into account.

Francis Cepero
So you need to be able to use the right equipment for the right edge conditions. That’s one thing that I would say the other one that the other thing is, some considerations is around the maintenance of those equipment. So the edge equipment, okay, it’s also an IoT device. So you need to treat that equipment as well as an IoT device. Right. So it’s a little bit of recursion here, but it’s really the is a really important thing. So that machine that let’s say industrial PC, you need to monitor that the power supply works, that the batteries are working, that this is working. So the temperature is not very high, that is not getting sun exposure for more than let’s say two hours. So, all of these things are important swell. So you need to manage the edge properly. And then last but not least, understanding what happens, what is the lifecycle of an edge, but also from the from the perspective of the of your application. So if your application is very data hungry, and needs a lot of storage, compute, you need to plan for this at the very beginning, because then running to the edge to change to to add more more storage, it’s going to be very expensive, right. So yeah, rather plan you know, you need to be more or less a gracious of the beginning in the planning more. The positive thinking in terms of this is going to last for a longer time, because your application is going to get more data and more data and you want to get it faster. And so, all the things as I said before all the things that you could do in the cloud, you cannot you cannot do any of those in the on the edge there is no scalability is limited. There is no sharding or any other compute to rickster you have from the clouds, you can perform on the edge, you have it on the this a limited space and this limited performance. And that’s just accounting for that. So taking care of the equipment, taking care of the operating conditions, and taking care of the lifecycle. That’s that will be advices that we will give to other people.

Brad King-Taylor
Tell you what Francis for someone doesn’t have all the answers, and I’m speaking from experience you, you’ve done really well that you’ve helped, you’re gonna help a lot of people with that advice. And I think the key takeaway there is to use it correctly and know that it’s got limitations, right. So amazing. What’s next? What’s next for A1, Francis, where where can you go from here?

Francis Cepero
I think we will continue, there’s also very difficult question for me to answer because, you know, being a very curious person, I spend my time with my heads, my head doing some crazy things that have nothing to do with what we’re doing today. So it’s very difficult for me to tell you this year, we’re going to do exactly this, but we have our technology roadmap. Okay. However, the one way that we found to be very, very hard to say that very accurate to plan and prioritise our work is by keeping the focus on the one and only thing we focus on, which is our customers.

Francis Cepero
So as we look at our customers andtheir lifecycle and their maturity lifecycle, we say, Okay, so the next level would be, we will be looking, for example, more standard and IoT applications, where we can continue helping our customers, customers reduce the total cost of ownership, by telling them look, this application is already 60% of what you need, we will help you with the rest 40%. But you don’t need to develop it from scratch. And and by the way, as everything we do is based on platforms, so that at the end of the day, you don’t need to have all the bandwidth, or the bandwidth near where we call the iceberg below the lower part of the iceberg. This is Donald, focus on what you can really focus on or should focus on, which is, you know, putting more focus on on the business side of things will help you with technology. And so we will add to this edge intelligence, we will add better connectivity options. We will add also, more edge computing is coming on our on our roadmap technology roadmap. And we started last year, this year, I think we started a partnership with Nordic semiconductors, of course, when we started last year already, but this year we went we went public. And so we’re building right now on the basis of the Nordic semiconductor chip has a whole set of edge functions that will allow you to have the chip already pre configured for connectivity, both with a cellular network, as well as well with a cumulocity platform, which is what we use as a foundation for our IoT platform. So it’s already really great. We have great partners and with those partners will continue evolving that technology roadmap. So we’ll have more more applications, more IoT solutions for construction, which is a central industry to what we do. We have great partners there. And we will continue just doing that. That’s our that’s where we have ahead of us.

Brad King-Taylor
Exciting times. Right? Not just for A1, but for the whole the whole industry. amazing for me, thank you. Thank you so much for everything that you’ve just gone through. There is one more question that we do at the end of every podcast that comes from the previous guests. In this case, Ralph Varcoe who’s the MD IoT and Chief Growth Officer at Connexin – It’s quite a curious question for me as well as we work quite closely with the IoT security foundation in the UK. So he wants to know with it growing at such a speed that it is and security is coming even more important. You mentioned at the start of the podcast, Francis that when your arms is on the security side of things. What’s your personal advice on keeping your IoT connections secure?

Francis Cepero
This is a fantastic question. Excellent, excellent question. We the way we look at security is that you need to be able to secure all the elements in within IoT. So you need to be able to secure your firmware. You need to be able to use secure secure elements in your in your in your in Your IoT stack, ideally or not, ideally, sometimes it is the sim chip itself, right? So there is that you can you can store certificates in there, you need to be able to secure the device, you need to be able to secure the communication between your device and the cloud. In at the end of the day, one thing that some people are thinking about that we are also thinking about this right now is how do we secure machine learning models, because they will be the the essence of the analytical capabilities which we put into the device or into the cloud. So, security for US Securities everywhere we are using security framework for understanding and analysing what is most important for our clients. W

Francis Cepero
e believe that our partners on the hardware side, they give enough attention, at least we test them regularly. They give enough attention to certain security elements that we we take it, we don’t take it for granted. We just take Test test test this every now and again. We are also we will add to our security, IT security framework, some some white hat hacking, so that people understand what can happen to their devices, once someone gets a hold of their devices and how they secure those those devices against this. But more than anything else, Brad, I think we will take care of continuously evolving a circuit. It’s an evolution, right. So we already started with this. But we will continue evolving the consistency and integrity of data transmitted from from an IoT device into whatever application it is, right. So we want to make sure that applications understand that they can trust the devices. But they do this because they implemented zero trust policy. So that’s an important thing as well. And we want to make sure that customers can trust devices and device manufacturers because they also implemented a zero trust policy where they can revoke certificates, they can revoke certificates for coding, they can revoke certificates. So it’s people having full control of the operating environment and making sure that we don’t have surprises in terms of data in terms of coding operating conditions. That’s absolutely critical for the IoT space. And we will be focusing on that a lot. In the next couple of, I would say months and days even.

Brad King-Taylor
Amazing, fantastic question and a fantastic answer, Francis, that that’s it. I mean, what an amazing podcast, right? Very, very insightful for from all aspects- I really like the fact that what A1 are doing and how are you helping your customers. I like your attitude towards it all. It’s just been amazing. So from us really, truly, thank you very much. And that’s everything that we’ve got planned. So amazing.

Francis Cepero
Thank you for having us. Thank you for your invitation, and happy to continue the collaboration with you guys. Thank you very much

Brad King-Taylor
Good stuff. On that note. Just for the viewers, where can they find you? What are you what’s your social media as your website?

Francis Cepero
We are on LinkedIn on LinkedIn. In our web page. It’s very simple. OIts a1.digitakl. hTht’s it.

Brad King-Taylor
Simple, simple and effective. Perfect, Francis. Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks, Greg. Thanks, guys. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast doesn’t matter what you’re listening or watching on. Just please leave a like and a comment. It’ll give my team the best chance to leave you all the relevant information and what’s coming up. It doesn’t matter how you connected as long as you’re connected. Until next time. Thank you very much.

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