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In S2 episode 18, Stefan Scheuerle – CEO, Sensorberg joins the show to keep us up to date with everything happening in the world of digitalisation from Smart Co-Working👩‍💼👨‍💼, to Smart Living🏡 and Smart Storage 📦!

Sit back, relax, tune in and be the first to discover…

  •  Stefan’s background 📦
  • A breakdown of Sensorberg’s 3 key solutions 👩‍💼
  • What use cases are being seen as the most popular for customers? 🏡
  • What barriers still need to be overcome for Smart Storage, Smart Co-Working and Smart Living?
  • And much more!

ABOUT THE GUESTS

Stefan Scheuerle is the CEO at Sensorberg, a Berlin-based company developing and integrating intelligent hard- and software for the digitalisation and automation of all types of buildings.

Follow Stefan on LinkedIn

Find out more about Sensorberg Here

Episode Transcript

Tom White
Welcome back to The IoT Podcast Show. I’m your host, Tom White. Today we’re joined by Stefan Scheuerle. Stefan is the CEO of Sensorburg. Sensorburg is a Berlin based business working to integrate intelligent, hard and software solutions for the digitisation and automation of buildings, including smart living and self storage facilities. Before we get into it, guys, could you do me a favour? Could you like, comment and subscribe to the show? You’ll be notified every time there’s a new episode. And as always, I don’t care how you’re connected, just as long as you’re connected. Thank you for joining us, Stefan. The pleasure, Stefan. For those that don’t know about your business Sensorberg and your background in IoT, perhaps you could give us a brief introduction?

Stefan Scheuerle
Yeah, sure. Certainly, I can do that. Actually, I’m, I’m a telco guy. I was in the telco industry for 20 years or more. My customer was the one known to you in the UK, because I was dealing with Vodafone, global worldwide. So I was, I was doing the first UMTS network contract for Huawei, for example, the Chinese ones. And then I build up a wonderful unit in Huawei. And then we started selling the first handset, and so on, so forth. And then I changed over to Samsung to run the terminal business of Samsung was Vodafone worldwide. And after that, I went to Sony actually, and doing the same thing. But then again, Sony handsets, were not selling very well, let’s say five years ago.

Stefan Scheuerle
So I started with a bit of IoT because Sony was active in IoT as well. So we did like hospital bed tracking stuff like that, in Sweden, in some hospitals there. And while doing so I was bringing together Sensorberg and Sony, and on my 50th birthday. And at that time, then suddenly it it changed a little bit. And then the guys from Sony, the investors, one from sensorberg wanted me to join Sensorburg. And that’s how I came and ended up in centerbrook. A good friend of mine, who was running Sensorberg a that time was still there, and he kind of hired me. And when he moved out the year later, I took over as the CEO of Sensorburg. So that’s the history of how I went into that business. And since it broke itself is a company that was founded in 2013 and beacons first it was a beacon platform, which is very marketing driven. And also in terms of the business models, not very much sustainable. So that’s why when my friends went to the Sensorberg, they did the pivot and started doing IoT platform, which was fine. But an IoT platform you don’t buy from a startup company. So that was also a good idea, but not really successful.

Stefan Scheuerle
So we started building se cases on top of the IoT platform. And the first use case on top of the IoT platform was access control. And that happened when we talked to the first customer, the biggest co working space in Europe at that time. It’s called the factory in Berlin. And they wanted to have some beacons. And while sitting there, Michael, my successor, he said, Oh, you need access control as well. Yeah, we can build that. And that’s how the whole idea of Centerburg and access control started. And right after that, I joined sensor Berg, and we had like one customer or two. And then we were starting to grow into the co working space mainly. So in Berlin, probably most of the current co working space, you see that we’ll have our own technology. And then we started to get broader. So we had a solution where you can add sensors to it on a Bluetooth network. And we got new investors in and these new investors asked us can you do something in living so we started with residential projects, meaning all the smart home steering packet boxes, you name it, everything which you can digitalize, actually there. And so we had these two verticals. And then in this factory in this co working space, we also did lockers, you know, lockers that can open up. You can put them and open them with the app. And I was seeing that and I was driving with a car and I was driving next to a self storage facility. And I was in my car I was like, listen, I mean, storage box locker, actually, the locker is the same as a self storage box, just speaker so why don’t we do self storage? And that’s how we ended in our third world ago called self storage. So we ended up with these three main verticals living office and storage. So that’s where we came from.

Tom White
Thank you. Yeah. I mean, it’s a fascinating business. And obviously, you’ve got a very good provenance in telco yourself and a lot of people that come into this world from a telco background.

Stefan Scheuerle
You’re totally right, because a lot of my old friends from Vodafone I see now working in Prop techs are companies and also a lot of energy sector. So this is where they all have to. It’s very interesting.

Tom White
Yeah, it is. Yeah, I’ve got a friend of mine, Juergen, it’s a prop in Prop tech at the moment that get that came from from Vodafone. So, yeah, a lot of people have to go into a little bit more depth if we could about those three key solutions of Sensorburg. So you briefly mentioned them then smart co working starting with the factory. Obviously, for people that are unaware this is kind of the we work of Germany at one point, wasn’t it? It was? Yeah. Smart living and smart storage. Why particularly those areas? I mean, obviously, you, you came up with the analogy that you’re driving past a self storage and you thought, well hang on a minute, this is the this is the same type of thing. What’s it is natural as that or was there any sort of definitive business plan to go into those areas?

Stefan Scheuerle
Yeah, the funny thing is, in the beginning, there was not right in the beginning, it was just like, hey, we can do that. Why shouldn’t we and we contacted actually, one first contact one storage in Germany, who was doing some some press release on digitalisation. It ended up that this digitisation was just a robot or robots thing, nothing really serious. But while I was on it, and discussing with him, we jointly developed in the sensor back storage solution with him. And that was our first customer. And from that time onwards, it was quite good to proceed and develop the solution even more specified to self storage, it’s still ongoing. So we are still in the process of developing the solution, month by month, and it’s getting better month by month. And we have added up customers all over Europe, also the UK. So in London, we have two storages that have our equipment, we are in Paris, and Madrid everywhere. So it’s really doing quite well. So that was the storage idea.

Stefan Scheuerle
And for the living, it was more, as I said, Before, the investors were pushing us a little bit say, Hey, can you do that? And we said, yeah, the platform can do it. The question is now what do we have to programme from within that platform to make it suitable for all these use cases you have in the living building. And that implied, of course, besides the access control, that we can do the old Smart Home steering, you know, the shades, light, stuff like that. And then it especially this to be independent. So it doesn’t really matter if it’s an ocean or set where whatever technology you use, in the smart home area, we should cover all of that by actually steering the gateway to really, really a gateway to it. And that was a start in a living. And then it moved on, like, hey, what do we do with the packet delivery, shouldn’t be used one app only in this living quarter. And I think that’s the basic story of it is, what is the benefit for the end users. And the end user benefit is to have one app covering the whole building, whether it’s in living office or storage. But in living, it was quite obvious because you have a lot of things that you have to bring together. There’s apps that can even include mobility, they can include a flower service, whatever. So everything that you have amount of living quarters should be in one app. That was the idea at a time behind that. And in the office case, it’s mainly about, of course, the main use cases still was still access control, because you get rid of all the key handling. And besides that it’s more utilisation. It’s like sensors to measure how many people are in there and stuff like that. So this is where we started with that. And that’s but that’s also where we are still today in a little bit. Because the these verticals develop in different speeds, I would say nowadays,

Tom White
Yeah. No, I completely agree. Your comment there about the app controlling everything is is a logical one, right.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah. And it was also it was also kind of a fight in the beginning. Because if you look in the residential areas, you have companies that provide, for example, mailboxes, and package delivery boxes. And they are, of course, good companies. And what they do is like, look, I have a solution, and I have an app for it. So you have the app of the packet box. Then you have a bell system. And then the guys from the Bell says, Hey, I have an app on my bell system. And then you have the access control I have and then all of a sudden you have an app for your smart home stuff, right? So then you have five, six different apps actually. And the idea is to bring that together into one, right it doesn’t have to say that that we do all of that. And by the way we don’t because we give our technology platform also to another app maybe on top of us. So a real app for for living quarters. That includes, as I said, before this service, or let’s say, mobility, or you have smart metering these kinds of things. And that has to come into one and Sensorburg is more, let’s say, the technical aggregation of it. So everything which is technical driven, is the sense of right app, and that central bank app will give us an SDK towards others, like, I don’t know, you name them animals, or I don’t know which one Office app is in our space, quite famous, I guess, space, where is these kinds of apps, actually, and they are using them our technology.

Tom White
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, that well, that’s, I mean, that’s, that’s a great area. That’s a great idea, right. And, you know, to build the SDK for people.

Stefan Scheuerle
The idea is great, I agree with you. But in terms of, in terms of doesn’t make sense, is, it’s a bit of a battle, right. And the big battle we have here is, and we figured it out over the last two, three years. And that’s why we shift our focus and intensity are currently a little bit but I can come to that later. The point is, if you have an IoT solution, who is the use of the idea who benefits from it, so I give you an example, in in the residential area, the tenant will benefit, he has only one app, the tenant can use everything in one app and be happy, and it’s a con for function I can do even if I if I come into my building, I can already put down my shades or switch on a light. It’s nice. It’s really nice to have. So tenants appreciate that a lot. Will the tenants pay more rent for that? No, they don’t. Because especially if you’re probably the same in London, but also in Berlin, and the big cities in Germany. If you build a residential building, and you want to rent it out, it will be rented out within seconds. I’m exaggerating, but I mean, we need we need living space. Right? So and you see the prices in London, right? So will the tenants be willing to pay more for these comfort functions? Without or let’s say reality shows at the moment, they don’t want to pay more for it. It’s a comfort thing. And it will make sense over the years because it when it becomes more commodity. If it’s commodity, then of course you need it, and everybody needs it. But for now, as of today, it’s a confirmed function that the end users might not pay for it. So who pays for it? The operator, the one that owns the building? So what is the benefit for the operator? Almost none. Almost none? Yeah. Okay. Bit of smart metering, energy consumption gets under Data. Fine. I agree with that. But besides that, there’s no not much benefit for the operator.

Stefan Scheuerle
The same in office, let’s, let’s say key handling. Okay, point taken key handling is clearly an advantage also for the operator. I totally agree. But besides the key handling, same thing, it’s more comfort function, rather than really using it maybe in the facility case, you could argue this famous cleaning case, right? So you have a present sensor. And is your office was the office in use today? No, it was not. So please tell the cleaning guys, they don’t have to come. Right. This is a payments use case. But is that widely accepted in the market, I doubt at the moment. So as an office, we have this situation.

Stefan Scheuerle
Now let’s look at the storage. In storage it’s also a comfort function for the tenants for the ones that rent the boxes. But on the other side, it’s a clear advantage for the operator. Because the operator saves process cost. Very simple. Give you a very simple example. Your customer in storage doesn’t pay. So in today’s analogue world, the operator will go there, put an extra padlock on it. So then the customer comes in Oh, there’s an extra padlock. Probably I have not paid. So he goes home again, you will pay you call them say Listen, no, I pay, can you remove the lock, then the operator has to go back to that box, we move to lock again. This is a process that can take a week. Now let’s look at the same thing in the digital kit space in our digital solution. You come to the box, we press on your app, and the app says oh sorry, you haven’t paid. So what does the App do? Okay, let’s use PayPal pay. And five seconds later, the box opens? And what is the involvement of the operator? None. And that’s exactly the point. All these kinds of processes benefit the operator of self storage. And that’s why this vertical as of now is the one booming in our in our in our case, in terms of our case, storage for us is going through roof. The other ones out. So So.

Tom White
Yeah, no, I mean, it’s great. It’s a great example, I think. Can you see any use cases where it will it benefit both the operator and the user?

Stefan Scheuerle
In terms of living in office?

Tom White
Well, yeah, I mean, if you talk about the tenant the tenant is not going to pay extra for it. Because it should be what it is.

Stefan Scheuerle
There are use cases that make totally sense especially if you If you look at bigger office spaces, that the one thing that totally makes sense, that’s a theoretical case is this typical case in the morning, you have a big building, you will start the heating at, I don’t know, six o’clock until nine o’clock, and then all the people come in. So what happens people have also like the we also produce energy and heat, which means normally the temperature rise above the level that it should be, because all the people are coming in now, the building starts again, cooling down, so that over over the date, it has a flat curve temperature. So in this curve, you can deduct if you do it with IoT, because IoT, you know when the people are coming in there. And we can do that today with the Presence Sensors, and so on and so forth.

Stefan Scheuerle
But what is not possible today yet, or let’s say not 100% yet is to actually steer the building automation. So in these big buildings, residential, but especially in office, we have building automation systems, they’re in there for 10-20 years they are, and the software is the same age, right. So never touch and running systems. These are great, great examples of building automation, great companies, you know, these Honeywell’s of the world and whatever, they do an excellent job on this. But it only becomes an advantage. If you can combine the building automation side with the new, let’s say, proptech, digital IoT side. And if you can combine that, and if you can give out the steering commands to the building automation, then suddenly, it makes sense, because then you can add the key AI, the artificial general intelligence on top, and then suddenly it pays off, because you can really save energy in these kinds of things all for the operator. Having said that, we are not there yet today. We can building automation in Sensorberg at least I can speak for us, we can read out building automation, easy. So you can do dashboards, and maybe you can give some recommendations, but you’re not actively steering the building automation as of today. This will come. No doubt about it. So this will come sooner or later. But at the moment is not. And why is that? Because all of these, let’s say older systems are not open systems. Every new company in public area in terms of IoT, we all build on open platforms, open API’s. And that’s what the other ones do not have yet. Or if they do, they might not be sufficient to actually talk to the other software. Yeah, no, that was a long one. I’m sorry.

Tom White
No, no, no, no, I enjoy it, I enjoy it. You’re very clearly very passionate about it. And I’ve thought about it in great depth, right. It’s interesting, because you know for me to look at this from a higher level point of view. Look, naturally, there’s going to be less focus because of the demand for it. And I guess the interesting aspect is, how do we get to that point whereby the tenant not so much is happy to pay more for it. But you know, the landlord of that building knows that they have to offer that. At what point does it become a saturation point whereby if you’re not offering this type of technoloy will it then detract from your available? Your way to rent those properties? Do you understand?

Stefan Scheuerle
Yeah, I think I do. And I think that what we talked about here is actually when do we get above above these early adopters, we have always had some early adopters. On the operator side, when do we get that curve to more into cash cows in these old ways rather than marketing. But let’s say I believe that the first thing we need is time, because the time is not there yet at the moment. What happens as of today is give you a good example. Good news later on. But let’s say for the bad news in the beginning is that a lot of these operators or let’s say, building owners, they want they say, oh, digitalization, that’s the hype. I have to do it. So they do it. So most of them do a so called lighthouse project. Right?

Stefan Scheuerle
So I can talk about for example, in German market, maybe we have five to maybe maximum 10, fully digitalized living quarters in Germany. And sensor right, we did two of them already. So and there are some others that did the other ones. So actually, we’re quite good position in terms of market share there. But two out of 10 Maybe two projects will not be it’s not commercially not interesting for us, right? So what happens then they have done the first experience, they have a learning curve. Not everything works perfect from day one. That’s also learning on all sides for sure. And now the question is, when will they move up in into having this as a standard in the way they build stuff. And that, for me, I think takes a bit time. It we are simply not there yet. What we see now is that in our new projects that we are discussing digitalisation is a topic.

Stefan Scheuerle
So we have the first time ever, we have kind of consultancy in terms of digital use case within living quarters. That’s the situation where we are in we have a lot of discussions on this one. But these projects will be live going live maybe in 2023-2024. Because the planning phase of such a portal is between five years, three to five years is the planning phase. And if we are now in the planning phase, and they are now listening up and saying, Hey, that’s what we should maybe consider, it takes another two years because before it hits the world. And that’s why we have a kind of a how to say that a time in between where there are no projects on, let’s say not many of them, there are just a few projects, and these few projects might not be enough for a lot of these prop tech companies to survive that focus on this one. That’s why I’m so happy in terms of Sensorburg that we have this one vertical that works like crazy, which is great. So that keeps us busy. And we can still watch the rest of the of the verticals. And we still have the platform. It’s not like we are prepared more or less. But for me, it means that in 2022 this year, and probably also next year, the focus of my product development is also focusing on storage, it’s not focusing on living. So give you an example. I will not I will not add another intercom system this year. I could do that. But why should I will not implement a new intercom into our platform just because of one project. No, I’m waiting. We can do that next year, the year after. And the meantime, we concentrate on what is best for the company and what also brings the solution to the market that people can value.

Tom White
Yeah, it’s a great answer. I mean traditionally speaking in any technology programme, as you say, you have the early adopters, and it goes up to mass adoption, right? And so when it becomes commonplace.

Stefan Scheuerle
And that takes another two years for me, if you ask me, at least another two years before we see that in living and even in office. And in office, I said before, you also need to have this this bridge with the building automation. So it makes really sense. This will happen the next two years. I’m pretty confident about that. But not today.

Tom White
Yeah. What Why? Why two years? So in the past, we’ve had people on the podcast talking about the need for universal interfaces, right? So the hyper scalars working together, you know, barriers to entry. Talking about roaming capabilities, etc. and permanent roaming. And do you see it in your view as a everything is coming to a junction and that junction in your particular area was two years time.

Unknown Speaker
It’s my it’s my best guess. And but the point that you mentioned right before, technology points. So one is the technology, the technology would be ready. If you put enough resources on we are done in half a year. But but that’s not the point. The point is when will the market demand for it. And you often have the case, especially in in the startup spaces, and then project phase, you’re always at the almost all time at this point when we have a great product, but nobody wants it. And I think that’s the situation at the moment. It’s not like nobody wants it. But let’s say it’s not enough traction in the market to really create this this pool for the solution. And the technology path will continue. This will go on right a couple of things that we have not solved today, technical problems will be solved in a year or two in two years time. No problem about that. The question is now is who takes the guts to spend money effort resources into solving a technical problem, not knowing if the market is ready in one or two years. And that’s what we have done. And that’s what you could say maybe it was a mistake of sensorberg from from overall picture, because we have invested in that technology two years ago. And we have done it and we have shown it, but it doesn’t pay off. And that’s why I’m a bit more hesitating on investing too much into the product development and living in office and rather focus on the ones that are sellable, which is storage at the moment.

Tom White
Well, it makes sense. I mean, it’s it takes someone or a business to show what’s capable and what is out there. So market demand also can be dictated by people just being, you know, ignorant to the solutions that are available from a technology standpoint, but that’s not their fault.

Stefan Scheuerle
If you have a staff which is well funded like I don’t know of a startup funded by an energy company, whatever with millions and millions of funding. They can work on that that’s fine. But but we are we are above that we are by But beyond that stage, right, we are on the way being a profitable company, we need to be a profitable company. That’s what our investors want to see, of course, and we don’t have the big pockets to have, I don’t know, 20 more developers working on that. bunch of developers I have, I wouldn’t need to utilise for the one that brings profit the company.

Tom White
Yeah, and it completely makes sense. But it’s also probably quite nice to have a lean and agile business in that sense as well. It means you’re more attuned. Yeah, yeah, exactly. This leads me really nicely on actually, Stefan, to my next question that I was going to ask you, you mentioned that until two years time, you’re going to focus more on the Self Storage and other areas. What are your customers most interested in? In terms of what you can offer? Obviously, we spoken about self storage, and that’s, that’s gonna have real value there, what other ones are there?

Stefan Scheuerle
I mean, when I say self storage, this is the market we are in at the moment. But let’s say the technology or let’s say the products that we are selling in that area also fit other things. Of course, it is we’re still doing access control it as such, right. Also for living in office, we’re not stopping with that. Right. So let’s say the basic stuff that we have, we can still utilise, we’re just saying I’m not developing new stuff in the in the in the other areas. And talking about self storage, it could be same thing as and we did that already. Think about golf clubs, think about fitness clubs, all these kinds of everybody who has, let’s say, the need for a booking and opening of locker kind things and doors, and elevators and stuff like that everything which comes along with it. So it’s not just only self storage, it can very well be and there are some other verticals in that area as well that we can cover. But the focus at the moment is the storage one.

Tom White
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I’m keen to look at the innovations that we’re going to see moving forward, right. So you mentioned again, around maybe two years, in your opinion, is that when it’s going to become more prominent in smart co working, especially living? What do we expect to see innovation wise from that? So you’ve obviously mentioned, market demand is one thing, technology can happen quite quickly, but interested to know where we’re going?

Stefan Scheuerle
I think that’s, that’s, that’s what I probably probably covered in my discussion before, in self storage. For me to start with that one, it’s more an evolution rather than innovation. So what happens in self storage is that we take more and more processes, and digitalize them. And by doing so we get a lot of the burden away from the operators. And there’s still a lot to do in that area in that sense. So that will continuously drive the business in that area. In the two verticals, which is office and living in ours in our case, then I think the innovation will kick in when when as what I said before, when the artificial intelligence get into the steering of the building automation. That’s what I foresee as the innovation happening in that space. Were we will we the first one there? I don’t know. Probably not, as of today.

Tom White
But you know what it’s like, it’s like the phrase, you never need to be the first right. It’s like, you never need to be the first ship out of the port. But you need to be in the same fleet.

Stefan Scheuerle
We have the first twice in living and in. Right. Okay, we have. So maybe we can pause one round. Let us pause a year or two and then we’ll come back. Because the point is we have everything ready.

Tom White
Absolutely. In terms of barriers, so barriers to enter into any market. You spoken about market demand, potentially not leaving this yet in those areas, whatever barriers, do you see that we still need to overcome Stefan?

Stefan Scheuerle
I think the major barriers that we have is the combination. It’s not you will never have one platform that serves everything. This is impossible, right? So you will always have a combination of players to create a complete solution, in this case for building right. And we have a very open platform. We’re very flexible with this one and there are a lot of other young companies that are doing the same. I gave you an example in Germany is coming to a different for example, which are more in the states a building automation part in the reading out and dashboard kind of things and then energy consumptions. They are also totally open for us and this example if we can we can work together as of today already because we are building with the same philosophy our platforms. On the other side we have this building automation party, the older ones. And the older ones are not there yet. They are not there yet to completely open up some of these systems were on Windows PCs. I mean, do I have to say more? I’m not, I’m not criticising because these systems work stable for years, and they are great. So don’t, don’t judge me. And listen, don’t take me wrong, full kudos for what they have done. But it simply doesn’t match with the software that was built today. And that’s the major barrier. So either on the, let’s say, a building automation side, we will see them reinventing their kind of software to be a more platform driven open software. Or they find a kind of, let’s say, connector, let’s say the calling connector that connects the old world with the new world. And that’s the major barrier I see in order to let’s say, embrace the full flavour of a digital building.

Tom White
Yeah, yeah. It’s a really valid point. And I think a lot of companies struggle with legacy systems legacy code, it being incredibly difficult to change. And the bridge between the legacy and the new system, as you call it, a connector, right? How businesses can do that and move that forward. Yeah. And you’re right, it is a big problem.

Stefan Scheuerle
The other problem with that is, you need to have the mindset to do so. Right? Because, for example, I see companies also, let’s say, with the new software, I see companies that simply state Yeah, we can do everything. And they claim to do everything. But if you look deeper into it, you see that some of that stuff is really just crap. It’s not done well, right? I see a lot of companies offering access control. And if you if I take that app from this company, and I go into a basement where you have no internet access, you know, guess what, the door will be closed, will not open because they’re not offline capable.

Stefan Scheuerle
It’s a quick and dirty access control. Yeah, we can do access control. Access control is much more than that. So of being offline capable, is our practice our priority. So we don’t need internet for anything, we can open it via Bluetooth, and, and stable. So it’s failsafe. And a lot of us don’t do that. But they claim to do everything. This company could say, Okay, why don’t we take rely on, for example, Sensorberg, in terms of the access control, because they’re reliable, they’re offline, they are good. And in terms of energy, submetering, if I rely on the company XYZ, or break for you, or whatever they call and build, and then I take my part into it as my core offering. But a lot of companies don’t do that. They want to say I can do everything. And that that’s also kind of a mindset and the old software legacy systems. They also say, Okay, we develop on top of our software, we develop the missing part, this open platform part we set up on top. So you see all companies, with developers that have worked on Windows systems for years, and then suddenly need to work with Python, or whatever kind of technology to set to build something on top. And that also doesn’t really work very well, instead of concentrating. This is my strengths. This is what I can bring to the table. Well, what else will come to the table, and then let’s jointly work on one solution for the customer. That’s also a big barrier, which is a mindset barrier and a lot of companies.

Tom White
Yeah, yeah. Now it’s a very, very valid points. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, they’re saying you can do something, but it’s how well can you do that? And the example you said about piggybacking different connection methods, right, internet, Bluetooth, so on and so forth. It logical, but depends on how robust that system is. So,

Stefan Scheuerle
I’m sorry, that I’m gonna give a negative flavour into this, I guess, maybe I should be more-

Tom White
I think it’s, I think it’s passionate, right. It’s not it’s not negative. It’s, it’s if you want to do something, right, do it properly the first time. I think that’s what I’m getting from it, you know? Absolutely. But it is a barrier, you know, it is a barrier. And it’s a it’s a barrier to other businesses, because they, they may not necessarily know you can do it in this way. And again, you know, the phrase is just because something’s always been done one way, it doesn’t mean it’s the right way.

Stefan Scheuerle
So I faced one last sentence or that thing, I’m fully fully behind IoT, I strongly believe into that. I’m a strong believer of that, and things will happen. You just have to overcome a couple of barriers. It’s not, it’s not real, that you can sell and then everything’s beautiful. That’s not the case. But the foundation of IoT that the possibilities that we have with this platform business is huge. It’s really huge. And it will make an impact in the next years for sure.

Tom White
Yeah, absolutely. I If I believe it is, well, hey, it’s why I’ve got this show. Right? That’s why I said. Very good. stuff. So what’s next for Sensorburg? What can we expect to see in the future?

Stefan Scheuerle
Yeah, for for us personally, as a company, it’s the expansion beyond the expansion plan. Now we are on a growth plan, we, as I said before, we are active in some countries. But funny things. For example, in the UK, we sold the project to the UK, it was installed, it was going live and in the middle in the centre of London. And we have never seen these guys, because it was during the pandemic, which is for us also good, because it shows that we can out of Berlin, so of the world, this will not go on like this forever, which means we of course, have to have people on ground as well. So we need me with the sales team or whatever. So what our next plans are to set up organisations, also in countries and grow across Europe, in the beginning, and beside that. Europe is not it’s not all I mean, there’s more than Europe. And if you look in self storage, and of course, there are a couple of other places around the world where this is nice to be.

Tom White
Yeah, yeah, exciting times. Certainly, you know, and I think, coming out of this pandemic, what we’re seeing a lot across the board, for all technology businesses and those services in the technology industry, is that there’s a real growth, there’s a real confidence. There’s a lot of people spending money, frankly, right and wanting to get stuff done.

Stefan Scheuerle
Fo the mindset, the pandemic was good for the business, you can argue, right? But for the mindset of the people, it was good. It was I think it saved us a couple of months, maybe even years in the mindset of the people, when it comes to the topic of IoT, and digitalization, that’s for sure.

Tom White
Yeah, I mean, just as an example, on that we had Hans Nikol on from Signify. Many episodes ago, and Hans was talking about UV light being used to purify air in buildings. Right. And so I think that the pandemic is made awareness to this. And hopefully, as we go back to what we spoke about the market demand, right, and maybe maybe people have seen Oh, hang on a minute, there are, or there is technology available, such as what Sensorberg can do, and other companies that can actually help us with this. So maybe that’s maybe that’s a positive about it is

Stefan Scheuerle
I strongly believe it is it has a positive impact, I would say yes.

Tom White
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Stefan, thank you so much for coming on to the IoT podcast show today. It’s been a real pleasure. You’re very passionate about the industry, that’s clear for anyone to listen and see. And I really appreciate it. As we wrap up the show. We’ve got a question for you from our previous guests. All right. So this is Matt Belachew. Matt is the founder of a business called where me? And Matt asked you, Stefan, and I’ll read this verbatim: Smart buildings and smart cities are the future. It is awesome to see companies like Sensorberg, promoting open dev platforms to turn traditional buildings into smart ones. But what the Sensorberg do to ascertain or measure the comfort of the building occupants. Do they have wearable components to their grand scheme? Or how do they achieve the comfortability?

Stefan Scheuerle
Yeah, I mean, that’s a very good question. Yeah, totally, totally agree that this is a good question. I’m trying to let me try to answer that. I think we said that before in our discussion today. You have the options, of course, to have averages. Give you an example. People sitting in an office, and I’m saying, okay, for me, it’s too hot for you. It’s too cold, right. But the steering, again, building automation is done on one level. So the only thing you can do there is you can give your your feelings you can again for me, it’s too cold. For me. It’s a warm, and you can maybe try to set an average and then later on, tell the building automation by hand, probably because not not by IoT yet. And maybe it’s better to go one degree down. So that’s a method of measuring these comfort things as of today. We do not have what we can’t have co2 sensors and in whatever, that’s all not a problem. But we don’t have a variable. And we cannot especially in the speaker, our buildings, we cannot react directly to it. Even if you would say I’m freezing. We could from an IoT perspective, not turn up the heat. Well, maybe we could technically but it would not help because if I put up the heat, it’s too hot for me. So therefore, this wellbeing of Have the tenants at the moment has very limited opportunities to actually to show that except for what the tenants are willing to share, from their feelings, how they feel they can do that with the app. But that the tool would be the app.

Tom White
Yeah. And again, that brings it back to that central point of interaction to one app, rather than multiple apps. And that routes back into that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Stefan, thank you once again, for coming on to the show.

Stefan Scheuerle
It’s been a real pleasure.

Tom White
And you can find out more on the IoT podcast as usual on LinkedIn and Twitter, at the IoT podcast, and check out our website IoTpodcast.com where you can watch this and all previous episodes, it would be great to hear your thoughts on the innovations of smart storage and smart living digitization, and to see where we’re going in the future. Until the next one. Cheers.

The IoT Podcast Team

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