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In S2 Episode 12, Nick Earle – CEO & Chairman, Eseye uncovers the pivotal industry predictions for IoT in 2022 from eSIM acceleration, Enterprise control and the rise of a single MPLS Network.πŸš€

Sit back, relax, tune in and be the first to discover…

  • Β Nick’s background in IoT πŸ’₯
  • What key industry changes are coming for IoT in 2022? πŸ’₯
  • How will the rise of the eSIM disrupt the industry? πŸ’₯
  • What implications will the acceleration of the single MPLS Network create? πŸ’₯
  • How will the market fracture? πŸ’₯
  • What consequences will there be throughout the IoT value chain? πŸ’₯
  • And much more…

ABOUT THE GUESTS!

Nick Earle is the Chairman and CEO of Eseye Ltd. Eseye is a fast-growing IoT enablement company with over 2,000 global customers. Eseye enables enterprises to implement global IoT deployment projects that enable business transformation and deliver rapid business results.

Follow Nick on Twitter andΒ  LinkedIn

Find out more about Eseye – HereΒ 

Episode Transcript

Tom White
Welcome to the IoT podcast show, Nick Earle joins us today from Eseye. If you don’t know, Eseye is a fast growing IoT enablement business based here in the UK in Surrey. They have over 2000 global customers. Nick, Welcome to the IoT podcast show.

Nick Earle
Great, Tom, thanks for having me.

Tom White
You’re very welcome. And of course, Nick, no stranger to podcast yourself, obviously hosting a very popular IoT leaders podcast.

Nick Earle
Yes, that’s right. But it’s nice to be on the other side of the desk, and I’ll look forward to see how you do.

Tom White
Yeah, no pressure, no pressure. So thank you, everyone. Thank you to all our listeners. In fact, this is the first time I think I’ve recorded a podcast this year in 2022. And I haven’t done it for a little while. So there is a little bit of apprehension. Do I still know what I want about? Can I still hold a conversation? Only time will tell? Ladies and gentlemen. So if you don’t know, Nick Earle, aside of running the IoT leaders podcast is the CEO of Eseye. Nick, can you just give a short introduction to yourself and your background? In IoT, please?

Nick Earle
Yeah, well, short intro. More years than I care to remember, in the IT industry. But let’s just say it’s several decades. I’ve worked in five countries done most bits of the IT industry sort of hardware software, cloud, I guess, snapshot is this is my fourth privately held company. And I’ve done two big jobs at worldwide SVP level for two $50 billion companies one at HP who was over in Silicon Valley, and one at Cisco, which was my last big one, where I ran the worldwide services business, and which is about a quarter of the company from a quota perspective. And the cloud and managed services programme globally. I’ve also dabbled in some non IT stuff, I run global operations, Head of Global Operations for Hyperloop. So we can talk about transportation projects, but I don’t think we will do on this, this one. And so I’ve been here as CEO of Eseye for three and a half years.

Tom White
Excellent. Thanks. Yeah, I mean, fantastic background, Cisco, HP. Hopefully, we’ll definitely have to chat about that. And another conversation, unfortunately we probably probably won’t be able to now

Nick Earle
I’m the guy who tried and failed to kill HS2 so right. Okay.

Tom White
Well, in that case, I don’t want to polarise our audience. So, so we’ve definitely leave that one for now. I think Nick. Excellent. Well, let’s just jump straight into it. I mean, obviously, we had a pre call, as we do in a lot of our guests on the show, just to talk about things that we wanted to talk about. And one of the things that you had mentioned in that call was obviously 2022, being quite a disrupter to IoT, lots of changes, lots of things going on, you know, your insights in this are really invaluable. So to kick off, could you talk about what you think is gonna happen in 2022?

Nick Earle
Yeah, I mean, because everyone thinks a lot of things are gonna happen. And you have to say, well, didn’t you say the same things last year? We always think things. This is the year it’s gonna happen, right? Believe me, this is the time, you know, maybe going back to our chair, my Cisco days, you know, it was I think it was 2010 or 2011, that a whole bunch of companies, including Cisco said, there’d be 50 billion things connected by 2020. And none of us I think, ever thought we’d be doing a podcast at the beginning of 2022 and say, Okay, what actually happened, but the answer was 11, 11 billion. And the bulk of those were smartphones and tablets. So if you actually say pure IoT devices, it’s about 3 billion. It’s hardly a fantastic achievement.

Nick Earle
So clearly, there was some major major issues. And frankly, you can sum it up as one word is complexity. Everyone says it’s slow down complex. So the question is, so why is it going to change in 2022? And because it’s still pretty complex, but there are two or three things which are happening sort of pseudo independently, which actually, I think if you take a step back say, actually, this is actually going to change the structure of the industry. And let me give you an examples. One of the things is the eSIM, so the eSIM which She’s not talking about the physical form factor, because can be an iSIM. It’ll get inside the module. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about the fact that it’s dynamically programmable OTA.

Nick Earle
So what we’re doing is we’re breaking the 40 year lock that there’s been between the MMO of the mobile network operator and the sim, because the sim as it just was did many things, but one of the things it definitely did was it would, it would take a proprietary IMSI- International Mobile Subscriber Identity into the device and lock it in. So once you chose your Sim, you chose your MNO. The MNO chose the roaming partners, and they control the switch. eSIM basically breaks that proprietary lock, so 828 and 830, aminos. All now moving to eSIM, and sim manufacturers are all making their Sims as eSIMs now 2022 is the year where it really takes off, and you think about it, you’ve had 820 stovepipe proprietary solutions available if you want to do globally global connectivity. And now you can have a single SIM and the user or the MNV- Mobile Virtual Network operator can choose the underlying connectivity partner.

Nick Earle
That is arguably the most fundamental change to cellular connectivity in the IoT context that that there’s been, and it would have very, very significant consequences. And one of them in particular, is actually very positive. Like all disruption is there’s winners, there’s losers, and there’s new entrants. The winners are primarily the large enterprises. If you look at the data of the 11 billion versus the 50, it’s classic Pareto, crossing the chasm pick your business school theory. But it was the 20% of the companies, the biggest companies that own 80% of the things that haven’t done the global rollouts presentation, but we haven’t a true global rollout. The reason that big companies have not yet crossed the chasm is because they couldn’t put a single similar device and have it connect anywhere in the world, anywhere they want to global sim, but there isn’t a global MNO. And so one of the big winners of the eSIM model will be large enterprises who can say I can now put a sim chip on the board of a device that manufacture and when I deploy it, it will choose the MNO. So winner enterprise, so that will cause an inflection of adoption. Then you have new entrants who see things as a as an opportunity. So there will be recent announcements, since you did the last podcast.

Nick Earle
AWS now offering AWS private IoT. So you know, you can, as an enterprise, you can buy either a 5G licence or private IoT licence, you don’t have to be an MNO and regulated as an MNO. And now what you get is AWS saying, well, you’ll be able to buy connectivity from AWS, well, that will be an eSIM and you buy your connectivity off a marketplace. And so if you think about that, then the MNOs not only going to lose the proprietary lock, but they are also going to actually, if they go with the hyper scalars, they’re going to be competing with everybody else based on pretty much one parameter called price, which is not what you want. And so two major answers to your question. One is I think eSIM is the most fundamental change for a long, long time. And secondly, it’s going to be great for enterprises, you’re going to see more global, truly global solutions, which is great, because we want the business outcomes from IoT. But actually, what you will see is MNOs in particular, under pressure to move up the value stack and become truly global, and compete based on global capabilities, which will mean interoperability between MNOs partnerships, as opposed to just roaming agreements, which is really just a commercial model to fill in the gaps where they don’t have their own coverage.

Tom White
Yeah. It’s really insightful. Thank you for sharing that. Nick. I think what I’ve spoken about with people in the past is this need for a common platform, a common understanding across lots of different areas. And that’s added to the complexity of the rollout. So the fact that we’re here with, as you say, 3 billion actual devices, things that perhaps, you know, aren’t necessarily just mobiles and tablets as well. Is this issue right of Sims being locked to countries and various other bits and pieces? So I think, absolutely, this is going to be a fantastic growth area in 2022. Staying on the lines of eSIM acceleration, you you’ve gone on record in the report mentioning around a single MPLS network. The rise of this and obviously, you’ve just touched on it now. Can we talk about potential 5G and the disruption that 5G is going to have as well?

Nick Earle
There’s a lot there just to unpack it. First of all, just to explain the report. Yeah, we’ve done a IoT predictions report, which is on the Eseye website, which covers this in a bit more detail. But first of all, let me start off in the order, which I think if I can recall, you asked the question, what do enterprises want, they want one platform. And by one platform, it’s really one CMP- connectivity management platform, which manages public networks and private. So it’s not separate platforms. Today, the MNOs not only have their own proprietary Sims, but they have to choose a connectivity management platform. So there’s the Cisco Jasper camp, there’s the Ericsson DCP camp. There’s the Verizon things Space Camp, there’s the Vodafone GDSP camp, there’s the Nokia wing camp, yada, yada, yada.

Nick Earle
So if you’re a large enterprise, not only have you got all these silos, but you’ve actually got to add together all these platforms to create a single platform. And then what you want is a single platform for all your Sims, not one, one, a different set of platform for a different subset of Sims. Because otherwise, you’re going to get different API’s different contracts, different pricing. So the whole thing is ripe for simplification, interoperability and disruption, it is incredibly fragmented, it’s no surprise, you don’t get a bigger surprise that we got to 3 billion that we not that we didn’t get to 50 billion, it’s just the cost of glueing it all together is put on the shoulders of the user. And is the reason why it’s complex, because it’s a fragmented, proprietary it ecosystem.

Nick Earle
So all technology starts off as proprietary. And then ultimately, user demand causes the requirement of an international standard to emerge and interoperability. And so with EUICC, what we’re now getting is the ability to transfer the connection. And then what you get is an abstracted agnostic platform that’s cloud based, which sits above the MNOs, that does all the things that I said, handles anyone sim single set of API’s, single motion provisioning, single pricing, and actually federates connectivity across the MNOs. So packages presents connectivity as a service to the end user. So why is the is an MPLS network important? Well, the moment you start seeing the target market is enterprise, then you have to actually look at what do enterprises want, they don’t sit around the, you know, exec team table and say, Well, what we really need is a is an MPLS network. What they say is we’re really worried about security for our devices.

Nick Earle
So as the number of devices connect, because we’re solving the interoperability problem, the number of devices grows exponentially. As the number of devices that are connected grows exponentially, the threat surface grows exponentially. So when we did our survey, another report on our website says, What’s the number one inhibitor that is holding you back from adopting? It wasn’t this complexity, that was number two, the security concerns were number one, we think of, you know, Colonial Pipeline, you know, and that’s just scratching the surface of what’s happening. Because devices are not, IoT devices are not sophisticated. You can’t put agent software on them. You can’t control the processor, you can’t control the firmware.

Nick Earle
So there isn’t a there isn’t a model for just put it for securing these devices. That really works. And the other problem is that as the devices hop between the MNOs because of EUICC, switching their IP addresses changing. So now you think about it, you’re the you’re not Tom, the podcaster you’re now CIO of Mega Corp. And you want to roll out 100,000 Sims worldwide. And those Sims you got to put a Sims in EUICC enable the Sims because that’s future. And you think your Sims are connected to Vodafone, and then tomorrow morning, 400 of them are connected to Telefonica. Or they’re connected to Verizon, or they just 20 just moved to at&t every time they move, the IP address changes. So there’s two consequences of that. First of all, if your application contains the IP addresses, which about 25 30% of applications do they say I know where the devices reach out to this IP address? The device isn’t there. Nevermind securing it, you can’t find it. And the the second the second consequence of that is that if you had words say using Vodafone for all your Sims in a pre sim world, now you’re using 40 or 50 aminos because it’s all being federated and packaged for you. How are you going to implement security policy centrally with auto deployment to the edge? You can in one Uber mega MNO model? Well, my security is implemented over a private link to Vodafone Vodafone, I use Vodafone security.

Nick Earle
But if your Sims are connected to 25 off MNOs you’re gonna have to do that 25 or 30 times once you found the device, because when it when a sim switches on EUICC from Vodafone Telefonica, Vodafone doesn’t know that it’s gone, they just know that it’s not isn’t aware it’s gone, they just know it’s not connected to them is that you pass the rugby ball, but you close your eyes, you don’t know who’s caught it, you just know you don’t have the ball anymore. So you’re an enterprise and you think, well, how can I? How on earth can i Isn’t this just made security worse. Now, if the MVNO know, the person with the abstracted agnostic switch in the cloud, single set of API’s, etc. This is what OSI is. But if that NBN Co has a single MPLS network through which all packets traverse, regardless of which, me know, they are connected to so they’ve implemented their architecture on a ring network with all the MNO is connected to the ring, as opposed to a point to point architecture which most enviamos use.

Nick Earle
If they have a ring MPLS network connecting their data centres, then they it doesn’t matter how many which whichever nose the devices switch between, for them if they’ve got their packets. And they know where they they know where the devices are, because they’re keeping track of, of the switch, because they’re doing the RSP, the remote sim provisioning. So suddenly, you start thinking about asset visibility, security compliance, a whole bunch of policies, configuration policy, industry vertical compliance, a whole series of corporate must have, which are nothing to do with data from IoT devices, they’re the corporate IT policy, they are going to have to be deployed to the edge, even more importantly, than deploying it to the printers in the office. So and by the way, all the devices in the office gradually will go from a Wi Fi connection to a private 5G connection, and your factory with all your robots and your pallets is going to be 5G. So basically, even today, what we think is on the corporate network, in the future will go to a private 5g network.

Nick Earle
So suddenly, you’re faced with maybe 80 90% of all your devices, or networks that you don’t control. The only way of implementing policy to the edge is through a single either needle approach, which has to be a private MPLS network, which is run by the NBN. Oh, and if the NBN Co has a private MPLS network, then they can say you tell me your security policy. And I will apply it using my partnerships, or my own software to old devices, regardless of the fact that they’re switching because there may be switching at the end. But from my point of view, they’re just packets on the network. And so we formed a deep partnership with a company called Armis, which is a agentless security company that world leaders, Gartner ranked top top Magic Quadrant in agentless, which does exactly that, which is to be able to do an agentless security for IoT devices in an e sim. World. It’s just one example. But what what the point I’m trying to make is if you if you let go of the technology and helicopter out and saying what does this really mean? The IoT market is going to fragment into low cost providers. Once great if you want low cost, simple functionality. Cheap data, there’s a bunch of cheap data people and you’ll find them listed on AWS Marketplace will compete based on cost per megabyte, but it’s a volume market, if you want enterprise value, and be and be able to pass that techlace, which the CIO, the seaso, the CFO, the CEO of these companies wanted large enterprises, you have to have enterprise capabilities. And those eight enterprise capabilities needs to be deployed to the edge where the edge is dynamic and switching between MNOs public and private. And that’s why MPLS extension of policy to the edge is fundamentally important. And so we believe that the market will bifurcated to volume and value. And value is a high bar for people to move up to, because it does require these sorts of capabilities that I’ve described. So I do believe you’ll start to see that shakeout in 2022 and it will apply to everybody, no one’s immune from it. But certain industries, certain industry verticals will be one of the first to to adopt it, as always, certain industries go first, sort of the Jeffrey Moore bowling pins, you know, you’re crossing the chasm. Certain industries goes go first, but we’ll cross the chasm or start to cross in 2022 and get into mainstream adoption 2023.

Tom White
Yeah, I mean It’s it’s a big shift, isn’t it? In general? Yeah, absolutely.

Nick Earle
Long overdue shift.

Tom White
Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. Right? This slightly ironic or, or just bad timing element to that as well as you were talking about eSIMs the eSIM in my Apple Watch decided to ring and I have to turn it off midway through. So it didn’t spoil the podcast.

Nick Earle
It’s interesting you say that I didn’t know you were going to say that. But if you actually look at does this world already exist? There is a just to get technical for a bit there’s, there’s something there’s a technology in consumer devices, you don’t have this your Apple Watch, does not you don’t have to think which MNO am I going to be connected to it uses something called SMD p plus, which basically allows it to pull the IMSI from the different operators. So you can take your Kindle or your watch or whatever it is all around the world. You turn it on, and you think about it. Especially if it’s a cellular connected devices, take your Kindle, you don’t think about it, it can actually download a book on any beach in the world. But that is consumer technology for consumer devices. When you look at business technology for business IoT devices, you have to manage the aminos. So the the the what we’re looking at is the model that was created for things like cars, because clearly Tesla you don’t have to think about it. Cars and Kindles and those big devices, which was only connected for a very few people now entering mainstream mainstream and becoming available for all devices. So that FYI, it’s it does exist, it has been proven, it’s just not entered the world of industrial IoT yet.

Tom White
Yeah, it’s interesting. Well, often is the case of many initiatives and tech initiatives. Right, you know, you know, the consumer side. Yeah, yeah.

Nick Earle
There’s money, there’s volume and the users on sophisticated. So you have to do?

Tom White
Yeah, Nick, you’ve touched briefly on en si, their company, you’re obviously a CEO of and a little bit about the work that you’re doing and to give you a bit more of the opportunity to talk about the business because, you know, will phenomenal success as a company, you know, the relationship that you’ve got with its Armis? Isn’t it the relationship?

Nick Earle
Um, it’s just the security? Yeah, we’re obviously partner for security amongst multiple relationships. Yeah.

Tom White
Yeah. What can we expect to see from Eseye advancements in the business coming forward? As well as specifically?

Nick Earle
Yeah, a lot of things. But maybe one of the best ways is to, you know what, I’m going to talk about your Apple Apple Watch again.

Tom White
Okay. I’m glad. I’m glad I brought it up.

Nick Earle
Glad you didn’t turn it off. But look, the question is, which industries are going to adopt first, and because whichever, whichever industries go first across the chasm, the bowling pins, you know, the industries that knock down the front bowling pins, and the rest of them go down. That’s where we’ll go. So you want to know where we’re going, we’ll go we follow the money has happened. So let’s talk about one. And when you’re talking about your watch, I think it’s a good example, I’m going to talk about health care. Right? So let’s take health care apps. You know, I’ve got Fitbit on, you’ve got an Apple Watch, she was got more money than me paid more for it.

Tom White
I’ve got the aura ring as well, actually. This morning,

Nick Earle
I’ve got a four year old Fitbit with a cracked screen. But okay, what is the if you look at all these health apps, and daddy, daddy da, it’s based on your, your Apple Watch, which you’ve synced by Bluetooth to your iPhone, or you take health care and what’s going on in COVID. Now protect the UK protect the NHS, you want to free up the beds. And so you want to you want to get people out of the beds who haven’t got COVID to free up the beds, but people have got COVID. And at the same time, you can’t get an appointment with your doctor anymore, or you’re lucky that you get a phone call. And so this whole area is called RPM Remote Patient Management. And basically what we’re seeing is an IoT enabled disruption, which is fundamentally like work from home fundamentally changing a model, which is where you don’t go to get the treatment, the treatment comes to you. Treatment comes to you.

Nick Earle
So you don’t go to the doctor, the doctor comes to you. You know, you may go to a hospital, but you check out pretty quickly and you go home with the medical instruments. Now the point about that is that the people who need this care or let’s say 85 year old person, they are not going to sync an Apple Watch to an iPhone at 85 in order to send the data back to the hospital. Because in fact your app on your Apple Watch doesn’t go to your hospital. It goes to a startup. You So as I’m going to offer you services that tell you what’s wrong with you. So the whole model built differently, it’s with disruptors at the other end. So what we’re seeing happening is that is that what you really want to do is take the devices that are, for instance, in a hospital room, like a pulse oximeter is really important for COVID. The oxygen level of your blood, heart monitor, glucose, machine that measures your glucose, etc, cetera, et cetera, take their devices that are normally on these trolleys that go around the the hospital and they get wheeled from room one to room 27. And nobody knows where they have it is.

Nick Earle
So actually let people check out of the hospital and go home with a box of devices that ubiquitously connect to anybody, they just get connectivity becomes a feature. And they just turn it on, and their doctor can see portal of how they’re doing and they can monitor them. And there’s some AI software, which runs in the cloud says that Tom’s numbers are okay. But this one is trending in the wrong way. So you have an intervention of the big the doctor reaches out to you. The same thing with your your doctor at home, what you know you it’s based on I’m sick, I make the choice that I’m sick, therefore iPhone for an appointment, and I don’t get one. But we should be able to be monitored by our GP, not just by a StartUp Health app. So so what we’re seeing is that, with the advent of ubiquitous connectivity, and e sim capabilities, you actually can get small devices that just cellular connect anywhere in the world. That is one of the problems from an IoT perspective you have to solve which is this thorny issue of roaming versus localization. And that’s probably a good place to finish over and above the fragmentation of the industry, which is 800 and whatever players are saying my sim, my sim my sim.

Nick Earle
You also have the regulator’s who are helping those players by implement by the imposition of permanent roaming restrictions. So if you are now back to your now this project manager again and Mega Corp, and I say to you okay, Tom, I’ve explained to you about a Sims, I’ve explained to you about me knows, I’ve explained to you about platforms up is that every Oh no. It’s just one more thing. One more thing. Make sure your devices aren’t connected for more than three months. And you go well, well, three months is permanent roaming. And to get kicked off. Why am I going to get kicked off? Well, it’s a bit complicated, it can’t explain right now. But after three months, you’ve got to swap the SIM in the device for the local server in the US. You’ve got the can’t roam from a European provider. After three months, you’ve got to take the sim out and put a Verizon SIM in because there’s permanent roaming. And you say well, I can’t take the sim out the device. It’s in my device. It’s locked in it’s on the board. And so that’s yet another barrier. So what what we’ve done is we have a like the Star Alliance, it’s a series of MNOs around the world that we interconnect to but we can localise this our eSIM onto these partners so we we can localise a sim onto horizon, OTA. So it’s the only sim that can be made to look like a Verizon sim without it being a Verizon sim.

Nick Earle
So when it lands, you have a pulse oximeter in the UK, it works. Take it with you in your suitcase to the US. It loads, it doesn’t just roam onto Verizon, it localises on to horizon, you’ll never get kicked off to be moved to the US the same product. So the point I’m trying to make is eSIM on its own is the switch. But what you then need is the ability to have federated local eicc enabled orchestration with the maximum choice of localization with roaming infill, which is what I meant by the Star Alliance model by one airline ticket fly on any like airline, don’t think about it, right? Their competitors, but that’s not your problem. You bought a ticket, right?

Nick Earle
And so the one thing that we by having that model, what we’re able to do is offer global connectivity, which is why this small company in, in in Guilford runs the IoT for for the fortune 10. So we do all of Amazon’s IoT, right well, we’re tiny company but we do Amazon. The reason is, Amazon want to be able to put a locker on any street corner in the in the world and it just connects and it stays connected. So we do shells, Evie chargers, such as so. So what what I think is when you think about that, you get it the light goes on you say okay, ubiquitous connectivity from the point I switch it on with a global offering. Then you start saying where are the industries that are going to go health as a really obvious one. Healthcare is a huge pressure to actually Free up the beds, solve the problem with the GPS, etc. Evie charging really obvious one because the move to electric cars asset tracking really obvious one because when things move, they go between aminos. And so you can look, you can find these industries, which in 2022 will become big adopters of ubiquitous global connectivity. So putting a bow rounded for all these reasons, I, I think things never happen as quickly as you think you’ll never make a prediction on a number on a timescale in the same sentence. But having said that, I really believe that 2022 will see the big guys, companies adopt global solutions where they are in control. And the players underneath that are playing a different role to what they’re playing today. And the net benefit of all of that would be the complexity will will go away, it’ll get less the choices will increase, and the inflection point of adoption will, will start to occur.

Tom White
Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is one of the main issues, isn’t it? As we touched on at the start, you know, I like to call it grieving. Good, right. So you know, if you think about IoT, and what it can do, generally, it’s helping people the environment. And and I think that the definition of IoT, in its simplest terms is connecting objects and environment to the internet, right? So if we can’t have a common platform, or people working together in a good way, then we can’t connect the amount of devices to really justify where this could go. But equally, we’ve got private business, that are after the money, as you say, and there’s no shame being after the money and you know, yeah, yes, yeah, I kind of feel that sometimes we’re at odds with this, you know, there’s one playing against the other, and so on and so forth. But it’s, but it’s nice to hear that the work that you’re doing in the business,

Nick Earle
amongst others, I would, you know, push back a little bit on that, Tom. Because I think the view that this is, it’s easy to argue your point, this is good, because it’s good for the end user. And then you can say, well, it’s bad for the people who are making a very good business by the fact that they can’t do this. But if you go back 40 years, which some of us can. Every technology that I’ve seen, since I left university, started off as proprietary. With no interoperability got to a certain level, stalled. And then end user demand insisted on interoperability and some form of standard. So when I first got my job in Manchester, selling many computers for HP, we sold the HP 3000. And our biggest benefit was they had its own software, none of which would run on the deck backs, or the as 400. And then suddenly, open systems, Unix, everything was interoperable. And then we had PCs, and there was no Microsoft PC is an apple PC. Okay, it’s mostly interoperable. Now, it’s not completely interoperable. But anyway, when I first got my mobile phone, I remember it was huge. And a big strap. It’s 15 pounds. Oh, wow. Yeah, I used to carry the stick around. But if I met you, then I’d say I’ll use it. I’ve got one of those minds heavy as well. But I said to what network are you on? I’m on Vodafone. If you said oh, I’m not a Vodafone. I’m on whoever. Sorry, I can’t call you because you’re not on my network. But it’s nonsense. Now we have interoperability, open source with software. The cloud made everything transparent you and ask what service Amazon run?

Nick Earle
Yeah, I could go on and on and on. Every technology starts off as proprietary and ultimately end user demand to forces interoperability around a common standard. And as results of which the lesson from history is, adoption increases, Cisco’s business increased when it could send packets to a juniper router, or an Avaya switch. So interoperability isn’t a threat. Actually, it makes the overall pie bigger for everybody. And the reason is that end users spend more, so the pot gets bigger. And when we talk about 11 billion versus 50 billion, it’s not about who’s got the 11 billion or the 3 billion of the 11 billion. It’s about the 39 billion that people wanted to put on the neck, put onto IoT that they’re not doing so yet. The moment you make it possible for them to do it. There’s a lot of money for everybody. So it’s not a threat, if you can make the transition and not get disrupted. Now if you can become either volume or value, then you’ll be able to do it. If you can’t, you might fall down the middle and there’s always casualties. in any market disruption, so just as there will be in this time, but I do believe that although on the surface, people say this is a threat, I think in retrospect, we should be able to take a step back and say, You know what? Anything that’s good for customers is good for all of us. This is going to make the market bigger. And yes, there will be casualties. But but but that’s always the case in business. If but if you can adopt, and if you can adapt, then it actually makes the opportunities bigger, not smaller, most important thing is, you’ve got to build from what the customer wants, in words, not from what you make.

Tom White
Yeah, very well, some of that. Yeah, I think it’s, it’s interesting. Just to go back to your point that you made about the connected devices. And I wonder whether or not Gartner and other research institutes were taking into account what those figures when looking at proprietary to interoperability.

Nick Earle
I suspect not. I was talking to them then. And I know I, I think we genuinely believe I mean, it was Cisco said it, IBM said Ericsson said it. I think we genuinely but because we couldn’t actually see what the problem was. I mean, I remember just before I left Cisco, John Chambers, our CEO, was saying, Well, I got it wrong. It wasn’t 50 billion, it’s 500 million. I mean, he wasn’t saying it was 10. Because the cost of the Mosler is coming down, you can now put small sensors on boxes and packaging. And so if you look at it, from a technology point of view, it’s 500 million, some people saying, Oh, well, you know, sensors get smaller and smaller and smaller, and you can print an IoT sensor, you can print a battery, it can generate its own power, you know, you can actually put IoT devices into the blood nanobots. So you then say, well, it’s trillions. And from from a technology point of view, the numbers are huge, when you actually look at it from a year, but what’s it going to take? If the answer is will you just put a different SIM in every device? You know, it costs at one of our analysts that we talked to, said, for a large enterprise, every additional sim that they have to put into their products, cost them half a million dollars a year of integration costs to the back end. So if you’re a vendor, I’ve got 40% of that. Enterprises Sims, but they’ve got 10, Sims 10 platforms, they’re spending 5 million a year glueing this stuff together, but you don’t see that you’re selling your 40% or your 10%. So from a technology point of view it yeah, if you go to trillions, but what’s it going to take to make it frictionless and easy from an enterprise point of view. And that means interoperability. And out of the box, ubiquitous connectivity, single pane of glass single support, single price single contract, single set of API’s. These lessons have all been learned in the IT industry for the last 40 years. It’s not new, it just hasn’t happened yet. In cellular connectivity is we’re not the first to do this. You can make a convincing case. We’re the last to do this, namely one other industry where there’s 820 players, each having a leading with a proprietary product.

Tom White
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Nick, I mean, it’s, it’s fantastic, you know, some of the work that you’re doing and the awareness that you’re raising around IoT. I mean, you know, going back to the fact that you run a podcast, I run a podcast, you know, we, we decided to do this together to raise your overall profile. Right? And that’s interoperability in the sense of media Right. And, and the fact that we want to do that and and it’s been hugely interesting talking to you today. And you know, we wanted you on the show for ages. So Britt, really appreciate you coming on and thank you, thank you ever so much.

Nick Earle
I appreciate it. So for the ping now might now I’m pinging which

Tom White
It’s okay. You know, I’m pinging all over the shop, and I don’t know what it is. I don’t know what piece of software I’m running women. I should turn it off or not. But but there we are. Nick, where can people find out more about yourself and your podcast? Social media, etc?

Nick Earle
Yeah, I mean, obviously, me LinkedIn. So it’s Nick. Oh, really? Maybe it’s popping up on the screen.

Tom White
We’ll make it pop up. Pop up. Yeah,

Nick Earle
It really is the off. The podcast is called IoT leaders so they can know how to search for podcasts. And we have just like this. We have, we have guests. We have some great guests on that get into different different verticals. We got a finish off. We’ve got a good one coming up soon. I haven’t recorded it yet. But the next one I’m doing is with our two founders created ZigBee. So they’re the Z. Oh, wow. Okay. And they’re still in business. Just outside the door here. So I mean brains the size of planets we’re talking about, but ZigBee is being used by the Mars rover to communicate with the helicopter. So literally, literally out of this world idea, yes. I think these being deployed on Mars, but they, somebody said to me, why don’t you because we’ve had 20 Shakib, head of IoT for Microsoft. And we’ve had the head of IoT for AWS, we’ve had end users, analysts, you know, somebody said, Why don’t you get your founders on because they created ZigBee. And then they created Si, everything I’ve talked about is not here with me, it was a brilliant vision of being Mars, martial artist. And I’m just, I’m just the Hired Gun at the front end. And so at this point, you get the founders on. So my next one that will be interesting to try and control the meeting, will be meeting interviewing the founders about what was the spark the genesis of them? Creating Eseye, because, in retrospect, you can all play I thought that was I thought this was true, right from the very beginning. But actually, when you dig under the surface, most strategies people sort of fell into and they sort of happened and you went a certain way. And so we’ve done a bit of a rehearsal, but I’m looking forward to that one. But it’s not recorded yet. So IoT leaders. And that’s the way you do it. But I have listened to your mom. So I’d rather than just plug mine, I would say they should tell their friends about.

Tom White
Thanks very much. Great. Well, I like it. Oh, well, I appreciate that. I mean, I mean, ultimately, yeah, you know, my, my background was in embedded computing, and I’ve been involved with hacking electronics together for quite a while. So yeah, it’s me, but I really appreciate you coming on make once again. Thank you.

Nick Earle
All right. Thanks very much. I really enjoyed it. Hope the listeners did as well.

Tom White
Guys, as always get involved in the discussion. Do you agree with what Nick saying with regards to IoT in 2022? As always, like, comment and subscribe. Next time we’ll be joined by Bjorn Hanson, head of IoT from Telia. Stay tuned for that.

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