The Next Wave of IoT: LoRaWAN, Edge AI & Building a Global IoT Ecosystem

Tom White (00:01.467)
Wienke, welcome to the IoT Podcast.

Wienke (00:05.176)
Thanks for having me, Tom.

Tom White (00:07.079)
I know it’s it’s been a while. I feel I feel like we’ve I I want to say we’ve saved the best till last, but this isn’t the last. But you’re certainly up there of people that I’ve wanted to have on the show in the last five, six, seven years, however long I’ve been doing it. So thank you for for joining us at last. You’re welcome. So for those that don’t know who you are and what you’ve been building for the last several years, could you do a brief introduction to who you are and a little bit about the things industries and the things conference?

Wienke (00:22.294)
thanks, thanks. Thank you very much.

Wienke (00:37.314)
Yeah, sure, sure. My my name is Wienke Geizeman. I’m a CEO and co-founder of the Things Industries, together with Johan Stokking, my business partner and CTO. we started Things Industries 10 years ago, where we kind of sat on the on a journey to yeah become a leading Laurel Wan company in the IT space. And yeah, so our company Things Industries

specializes in in in in in providing lower end network management software so our customers can build lower end networks and lower end solutions yeah without kind of having to worry about the operations of the network and the data transmissions. and Lowerwin is a IT technology that allows to operate a low power sensor network so that better sensors like small sensors like these

can talk to pretty small gateways like these. and that they operate on a battery for very long so that the operational cost of running, operating and maintaining your IT network ac is as low as possible.

Tom White (01:51.795)
Thank you. Yeah. So we’ve done quite a few podcasts of people talking about lore in the past and and and the benefits of of of why it’s so useful in harsh environments or in applications where you’re not going to go back to that sensor for a number of years, right? and to to read the data points. I think one of the biggest things for me and the kudos to you and Johan, right, is is actually building something which

Has has stuck around, right? You know, 10 years. I mean, a lot of people have said that IoT and the IoT industry has been really fragmented, you know, lots of different players, lots of different solutions, lots of different people trying to bring their roots to market. And we’ve seen some of the hyperscalers pull out in recent years and and and lots of change. how do you believe that you’ve managed to grow such a community and keep things going and and have become kind of really a household name?

within the IoT industry winky.

Wienke (02:54.008)
Yeah, that’s right. And thanks for these very kind words. But and I I I think I think the the key to our success is that when we started off ten years ago, we focused on the developer first. And I think I think there were were roughly two categories is that that we had companies that went for kind of large enterprise deals first and tried to make it work later.

And companies are that the the that focused on developers and integrators and and kind of like and and what we did is we focused more kind of like getting the tech stack, the IT stack, to a maturity level so that you can actually offer it to enterprises without it falling apart. And it’s a bit of a longer journey. It’s a bit of a kind of a a journey where where you have to experiment more and you have to kind of

learn together with the ecosystem how to make a solid IoT stack. and and I think that that’s really what was our was our difference is that we we we we s our go to market was developer focused and we listened very carefully to the struggles they had and the issues they had to make the IoT solution work from a technical perspective. But also what kind of cost and business model did they need to become successful. And one of the things is that

we we we heavily subsidize or sponsor kind of usage of our platform in an early stage where we know our customers are not making money as well. So we don’t want to kind of take any any money as well. So so and then when you scale and then then we offer enterprise services and SLAs and and these kind of things and and and and so what we we try to do is grow together with the ecosystem.

instead of kind of yeah going for big enterprise deal deals way too early and I think after ten years we’re we we now have many Fortune five hundred customers, massive deployments, and we have all these great enterprise deals, but only after that we reach the maturity to serve them.

Tom White (05:12.464)
Yeah, I mean that’s really interesting, right? So effectively what you’re saying is you came at this from the developer point of view, from the tech point of view as opposed to the business, right? Which is actually an interesting way to look at it. So actually getting it to work first and foremostly and then scaling up as opposed to the other way, which a lot of people have done. And and perhaps that’s been the secret source for 10 years in business, right? and what’s enabled you to to win so many of these contracts. and is is that

where the kind of community aspect came from because obviously you’re you know you’re well known for the things industries, but a lot of people, you know, come to the Things Conference, right? In Amsterdam, September, you know, I think the foot footfall was what, over two thousand people, two and a half thousand people, something like that, expected this year.

Wienke (05:56.866)
Yeah, yeah, that’s what we’re expecting this year, yes. Yeah.

Tom White (05:59.911)
Yeah, I mean that so that’s a lot that’s a lot of people. What gave you the idea to to start that?

Wienke (06:05.73)
Yeah, so so I think I think in general, if you look at change, you have I always look at kind of there has to be an ability to to change, and then there has to be a willingness to change, a desire. And then you need a trigger that that that that kind of makes you do the first step, right? And in IoT the ability is like a solid IoT stack. And and and the willingness is is

is that is that there are a proper ROI and a trigger can be, my competitor is doing this and this with IoT sensors and they’re getting a competitive advantage. Why I’m not doing that, right? So what we want in this in this the Things conference is to bring that all together to show what’s the current state of maturity of the IoT stack and to show you the ability. But we want to to show you kind of why this is so desirable and we want to trigger you

to s to tell to kind of show you that the time’s now, right? We’ve been through this hype cycle, we’ve been through hardening process, we’ve been through hardship, we’ve been many companies didn’t make it, right? So and you inherit if you start now with IT, you all inherit all these lessons for free, right? You don’t have to take that risk. So I think I think that’s always been kind of something that we wanted. And in twenty eighteen already we started with this concept.

And I I think what we saw there is that that we we saw IoT events that were heavily focused on sharing the corporate marketing story around IoT that was heavily kind of subsidized by by large financial capitalist money inflow into the ecosystem. And we saw that where are the events there where people tell the real story, right? That like we are in this IoT industry, everything falls apart when you touch it. This is not true, right? Let’s kind of be

be be be kind of transparent and and kind of honest because the only way that we can build ourselves up is by by doing that. And and that’s when we we we we started it and we started as a Laurel One conference only. But I the what I’m talking about is kind of building up the market, building up the ecosystem is not confined to only Laurel or only Bluetooth, or only Wi-Fi or only seller or only Z Wave. So in the last couple of years I started to make friends in other ecosystems

Wienke (08:28.247)
Started to invite them to this event. And now we have a big event where Loran is a piece where Nerman, the IUT, and LTM and Cellular is probably the biggest representative and sponsors. we have Z-Wave there, we have the Wi-Fi Alliance, the Bluetooth SIG, the DECT NR Plus Alliance, a DECT forum it is. so we have all these kind of wireless alliances.

sharing kind of what was successfully introduced in their standard and what are they going to introduce in their standard. It’s like a candy store for systems integrators to hang out for two days and just kind of yeah be completely up to date with what’s the latest and greatest in any wireless technology. And for us as a pure Laura ON company, we truly believe that that that we need to push gin in IoT general success.

and if so for some project Bluetooth or Wi Fi is better. I’d rather have you do that than force you into kind of relying you into that that we have the best technology because all these systems integrators they have multiple projects, right? So it’s about trust, it’s about transparency, it’s about just picking the right technology for the right for the problem at hand. And if we just push that then we all we all rise.

Tom White (09:53.841)
Yeah. I mean I I really love that. It kind of feels like it’s got its roots in kind of an open source kind of nature, right? You know, collaborative, people trying to find the best communication standard for the problem at foot, right? So, you know, Laura can solve a lot of issues, but it’s not the only one, you know, what is the right one for you? Be that cost, scale, reliability, security, whatever that may well be.

So is that how you’ve seen a bit of a shift then? So from when you started the things industries 10 years ago and and the conference was in 2018? Was that the first one you said? Yeah.

Wienke (10:26.221)
Yeah. Yeah, no, so and definitely I I think I think where you have early in the IUT hype, there there was so much kind of marketing money and and venture capital money the and a lot of that money goes into into into into setting framings, right? we are the superior technology, we are be gonna become the de facto standard. The billion devices that are comes gonna be on our platform.

Because the i you cannot just tell your venture capitalist the story about the billion devices and then go on stage and tell kind of yeah, no, it’s a fragmented market and we’re all gonna have a peace. Right? No, that’s not possible. So the moment that that that money started to dry up, you just saw that that narrative started to disappear and and then the narrative of systems integrators and device makers and and and and end users, they

Tom White (11:04.103)
Yeah.

Wienke (11:23.571)
they start to become louder and and yeah they then then you get the nice use cases out and I I think what’s what’s really I I I I heard somebody kind of like a few weeks ago tell me is that yeah if I look on LinkedIn I don’t see these IoT stories anymore and one of the reasons why why for instance why the the IoT success is so silent because it it’s packed with trade secrets. I mean now we have a thousand customers

nine hundred of them r they are not sharing with us what they’re doing with the platform and rightfully so, right? We cannot because because because it’s it’s it’s it’s packed with trade secrets and you want to keep your competitive advantage. So mm yeah, I mean sometimes success is very silent. what we’re of course trying to do on the conference is to see what what what can we share, kind of what what how can we can we get people on stage to share something

if they they like it because it can serve as so much inspiration. but yeah that the the dominating voice is really, as you said, is shifting towards not, hey, I’m gonna be the de facto standard. No, it’s gonna be okay let’s pick the right solution for the the problem at hand.

Tom White (12:40.368)
Yeah, yeah. Well that’s really interesting you should say that, right? And I and I guess that things, you know, the comment that you made there around the the talk on LinkedIn, I mean, in a way it’s a good thing because it’s almost like the hype is dialing down and people are actually getting on with it and it’s becoming more ubiquitous within businesses in general, right? You know, they’re they’re using it. They may not tell you exactly how they’re using it, and and as you say, rightfully so, because that’s their way of doing it.

but we’re seeing increasingly more now, certainly on the podcast and people that we’ve spoken to, is is more around this kind of connectivity and intelligence, right? And moving more towards the edge. So, in terms of emerging technologies to watch, what do you see as, you know, where more either VC money going into or more LinkedIn posts? What are people talking about these days?

Wienke (13:34.451)
I mean we met each other kind of a f like a month ago in London at the SGI Foundation. And I think we all had some very interesting conversations there on if we just just kind of like have these MCU based devices and make them smarter, then we could do all kinds of things. We could we could remove false positives, we could optimize kind of the the energy consumption and the data transmission. we could pack much more information in the same

Tom White (13:38.246)
Yeah.

Wienke (14:03.617)
data packet, right? for example, we already see customers building cameras that over LORON, which is a very constrained bit pipe. we’re talking about a very little bit of data that you can send after every 15 minutes. But for instance, if a camera would just not tell you show you like send over an image, but just say like this is the number plate or s like the last 15 minutes, 20 people have entered

the elevator. I I we can think of all kinds of things that you can do there. And and it’s gonna be fascinating. It’s gonna be it’s gonna be fascinating. And and I think what what what I how I see edge AI is is in in the in the constraint device and the constraint connectivity space is that we can just fit more valuable business data through the same small bit pipe, right? And it’s just the optimization.

Tom White (14:58.512)
Yeah.

Wienke (15:00.679)
And and and that can really kind of on the business side the the that improvement can can have have massive effects, right? So so that’s where I see edge AI and then kind of on the on the this is like the light edge, small devices, battery operated, and then on the heavy edge, of course, you just have have so much more capability to pre-process something at the edge, right?

mean we’re talking about factories that that that send kind of through MQTT gigabytes per hour on like small vibration data, with also the risk that that data has so much packet loss that you cannot do proper AI in the cloud, right? So for the heavy edge, it’s very interesting that you can run these large models on the edge because then yeah the packet loss is

Is is limited and for good AI you really need to hold data sets. Sometimes missing one or two percent of packets can can be become very troublesome because it can, for instance, just see anomalies that are not there, or can if it can miss out anomalies. So yeah, it’s all these interesting things happening in the field, and we at our event we have also the the yeah, the at AI Foundation coming. So like

Yeah, looking at our business, I mean, we have four million connected devices across the world. even if they all like if the next four million is like marginally smarter, like just the lever towards kind of business value is is is big and yeah, we’re gonna we’re gonna see that in the next five years or where that’s where that’s really gonna pop up that edge I but I’m I’m I’m very bullish on that.

Tom White (16:44.986)
Yeah. Well, I I I agree with you. I mean it it’s it’s logical in a way, right? You know, we’ve got all these devices in the field collecting data. Now the important thing is what we do with that data and how we interpret it with a coalition of LLMs that are are running now, right? To to start giving confidence around scenarios that can come with it rather than just spitting out the raw data. and I think, you know, we’re we’re now at this time where the two together can be very, very powerful.

And I think that’s is is gonna be an interesting time, isn’t it? Certainly in the next twelve to twenty four months to actually see what we can do with this.

Wienke (17:23.873)
Yeah, it’s not it’s not only gonna be LLMs, right? It’s gonna also be the the traditional machine learning models. but but the addition of LLMs, what it can do is just can add context, right? So so you you can have like like a machine learning model count how many people entered the elevator. but then maybe you have an LLM that could even add additional additional context. I mean

Tom White (17:29.863)
Yeah.

Tom White (17:35.312)
Yeah.

Wienke (17:50.655)
It’s just fascinating that you can bring all these tools to the edge. And and and I think what what I see when I go to Edge Iphonation, I I I see the hype, but I also see the the toolbox and kind of really that that is such an exciting toolbox where you just know that somebody’s gonna come up with something really cool that you definitely were not are not able to come up with. But so much capability and so many tools.

in one place, what the FGI foundation doing is is great and reminds me a bit of kind of like the the the candy store that that you that that we that that was there with the IoT hype. There were so many many possibilities, so many things you could do. But in the end kind of like you you see verticals emerge and then yeah and then then then it then the technology goes for goes to work for the business.

Tom White (18:42.588)
Yeah. Yeah, I think I I think so, yeah. I mean it’s certainly an interesting time. and I think it it’s as I said earlier, it’s the it’s the combination of the technologies working together, right? in order to deliver meaningful results, which is I think what businesses need and and require. but I’m interested to know your view on on why the ecosystem kind of matters, right? You know, why why the need for strong communities? Is it this

thought process around, you know, people solving problems together or coming up and sharing solutions is great you know, for the greater good for everyone. Is is that the fundamental belief in in say bringing the conference to life?

Wienke (19:26.005)
Yeah, no, so kind of the so very personal the reason wh why why I started a business that I I I want to build cool stuff with cool people. So that is my kind of very personal motivation in in doing things in the in the technology world. so this is very much like an amph amplification of of how Yohan and I wanna run a business. so so I think that’s really kind of like a personal drive and and the second is is that I what I what I see is that

that every time we do the event, we w the IoT ecosystem and building an an a proper IoT solution is incredibly hard. It’s a it’s a it’s a it’s a it’s a it’s a tough job. A lot of times you’re kind of faced with limited resources, maximum ask. And what I now see when people come to to s such an ecosystem event, they’re they’re they’re able to step away from their email and from their laptop and

Phones are always hard to get away from. But and then kind of they they they c they can can go get like for two days they can get in this world where where they can open up again and be open to everything what’s possible while they’re confronted every day with all the things that are not possible and all the things that can go wrong with the IoT stack. And and I think that is incredibly important for the the crowd that comes there as a system integrator. And for our end users it’s it’s really great because then they what I said, yeah, they can we can

Tom White (20:39.056)
Mm.

Wienke (20:56.087)
We and our partners can show the ability and the willingness and and we can present them with a trigger and then hopefully next week they will go back to the email, but they they also kind of yeah, be be a bit more open minded again. And and and that’s hard because you have to you have to you have to deliver, you have to deliver an IT solution. So you’re always in this converging mode. so so yeah, I think I think that’s why our ecosystem event is important and

and then I think the other argument is that all our solutions are made by by product manufacturers, systems integrators, solution builders and and and they need to know about the the toolbox and what can do what. And they have multiple projects, otherwise they’re not successful. Right. So and then and so

Tom White (21:41.768)
Mm-hmm.

Wienke (21:51.957)
Rebottered. I mean it’s like the basic economics of concentration and competition, right? Why are all car why are all car dealers in the same area? Because because because you’re gonna compare and then that’s what what what we we also need to offer as an ecosystem, right?

Tom White (22:10.104)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, I agree. And I think that’s that’s a really good point, right? You know, sometimes you can’t see the wood through the trees. And I think when you’re in the the froze of business, cut coming out of that and spending two days abstract thinking, seeing what other people are doing, being able to take those ideas back to, you know, back to your place of work, I think is very, very useful. and and it’s like-minded people that are all using.

the same toolbox or albeit versions of that toolbox, and and being able to implement things. So I think the ecosystem is great. And I think we’ve certainly seen after COVID, and there was some chat at the dinner that we were at in London, I think, around events and size of events and so on, and and and how it’s becoming more and more important in this day and age of of AI and virtual meetings, etc., just to be around people, you know?

Wienke (22:37.079)
Yeah.

Tom White (23:06.342)
And just to get that feeling. And I think that’s what people could look forward to for coming to the Things Conference in September, right?

Wienke (23:10.849)
Yeah, yeah. No, I I think kind of like what we see with AI and and especially the content that’s generated, what it what it will do is we’ll we’ll have this massive inflation on on on artificial content, right? So that that the value that you put to that is gonna be near zero. And and but what will will be respect as is human effort, right? So kind of any expression of human effort will be

even more valuable in as we go across this AI revolution. And one of the things that we have to put in our speaker manifesto is kind of like like like just just to be to go easy on the AI slob, right? Like maybe generate an image or do something, but kind of people wanna wanna see this expression of human effort and

Tom White (23:46.448)
Mm.

Wienke (24:07.207)
And and that that comes through kind of a good keynote, a great networking conversation, a great panel, a great demo at a stand. And yeah, I I feel kind of like there’s this I mean there w you just feel it in yourself. You you’re just urging more and more to to real stuff. You you you use the AI tools, they’re what they’re amazing, but but

Yeah, w we we we as a business you you have to you have to you have to hear the real story from real people that have real that put real effort in something. So so yeah, I think that’s that’s also the physical get together of an ecosystem is important. And yeah, it’s also why we have people from seventy countries always coming over. So it’s always fascinating to see where where everybody’s from. Yeah.

Tom White (24:54.78)
Well

Tom White (24:59.45)
Yeah, no, I can imagine. I really love that phrase, Winky, you know, the expression of human effort, right? You know, I don’t know about you, but I I get so tired now of seeing AI AI generated banners and posters and so on, and you know, it becomes pretty boring pretty quickly, right? The novelty kind of wears off. So I think actually seeing people put time and effort into something, you know, you can always appreciate the kind of hardcraft. so yeah, I can completely with you on that.

Wienke (25:28.277)
Yeah. And you also know that it means something for them, right? So if it means something for them, then they the so but it’s yeah, and that that is also part, I mean I w as I said, we have it’s also part of the IoT ecosystem. It’s like it is hard work and hardware is hard, that’s the that’s the cliche, right? But

Tom White (25:32.135)
Yeah.

Wienke (25:50.379)
I mean, I was imagined like kind of we we have now over the last ten years four million connected devices and every device had to be installed, manufactured, in pre-invested. It’s just this insane amount of work that has gone into kind of four million devices. And w not to brag, but it kind of like we we we estimate that the total cost of ownership of a of a enterprise IoT device using Laura Wan is around two hundred to three hundred dollars.

So four millions times kind of two hundred is we’re already talking about kind of almost in the billions of of kind of investment. And and that is kind of people in the IoT industry, they they they they all know that, right? It’s and then also kind of like the the ecosystem and contributing to the ecosystem. We’re talking about pennies, right? So it’s it’s really worth there’s there’s a really big ROI on on doing anything on the ecosystem.

investment and and what I really like is that kind of that that we have kind of yeah that we we have all our partners and all our device maker partners and and and kind of like they’re all there and yeah exploring new to it’s a lot of fun and yeah all your listeners are invited for free of course to the ecosystem event and

Tom White (27:10.587)
Mm-hmm.

Wienke (27:14.721)
Yeah, well with our company the things industries will also be showing off kind of how mature the Laura Wan e ecosystem has become, how how solid the the Laura WAN stack can be at at at very large scale. So yeah and and the kind of we we now have four million active devices and we we have around fourteen million contracted. So that’s kind of what companies

kind of like contracted with us to do in the next like five years already, right? And that’s growing. So yeah, it’s it’s a it’s a it’s a great time now. It’s we’re we’re we’re going in in very much the right direction and we’re eager to share that with everybody that the opportunity is now.

Tom White (27:50.066)
Well.

Tom White (28:04.198)
Yeah, I I think I think that’s one of the the the big things here, right, for for the viewers and listeners of on the IoT podcast is, you know, you’ll find out where this is going as well, right? So it it’s sometimes difficult to cut through the AI hype online because it’s so easy now to generate content, you know, content writers using AI, etc. And it’s all variations on a theme, of course, because most of the LLMs would just read other LM articles and it’s the same kind of narrative. But actually coming to the conference and having

A conversation with someone about where they’re taking things will give a lot of food for thought and reflection for people, you know, to actually have that conversation directly. And that was one of the questions that I was going to ask you. So, you know, 10 years now in the things industry, this podcast has been going for I think six, seven years now, seen a lot of change. What where do you see things going in the future? Obviously, we’ve touched upon the intelligence side of it and the edge AI.

Do you perceive that to to be, you know, the the biggest kind of growth of of IoT moving forward? or what other things can people consider the next kind of phase of this will be in the future?

Wienke (29:10.391)
Yeah, so I th I think what you have is you have this the plateau of of of productivity, or kind of what they call. And that the that that if you have first of the hype cycle, then if you triff trough of disillusionment and then you have the plateau of productivity and I I think that’s really kind of like where we are right now. and

What I see is is kind of repeating successes. I think that’s a pattern that we’ll see over the next three years. I I I rather see more concrete winners of certain niches and and and that that that we’re going to this space of ki in this niche, the de facto stomach is never man IT. There it’s Bluetooth. There you will use Wi-Fi, there you use Laura N.

The other one, so it’s more kind of convergence, but not in the hype way of convergence. It’s not that things are coming together. I I I also think that convergence is kind of stuff kind of accepting that some experiments failed. let’s let’s put it like that. And then and and I don’t think kind of

Tom White (30:22.737)
Yeah.

Wienke (30:33.485)
Yeah, I think I think that’s that’s it’s it’s a bit of like it’s not a like like a indeed we’re just saying it’s not like a kind of but the we’re the world is gonna heavily change, but I think the scale is gonna change because I see so many of our customers doing something with ten, twenty thousand devices where I I would look at it as like this market is not ten, twenty thousand, this market is twenty million potential devices, right? So what you’re gonna see is is is is is this is gonna be noticed and and companies are gonna

kind of kind of go from the the journey of figuring out how to kind of make something like a solid business, making some good money to kind of like like seeing that okay, like what if we do this not at ten hotels in my city, but let’s do this solution in the unlimited amount of hotels there are there are in my country or my continent or the world. So

I I think we’re gonna see more of that. so yeah, so so so so it’s really kind of like like we’re gonna yet go again to another order of magnitude of scale.

Tom White (31:51.782)
Yeah, I mean that’s exciting, right? I think so. I think

Wienke (31:54.079)
It is it’s exciting as an innovator, it’s not kind of like, yeah, we’re gonna like put AI in everything and then everything is gonna go time thousands. It’s not that level of exciting. But it it it is it is really exciting because it’s it’s drives so much business value.

Tom White (32:00.776)
Yeah.

Tom White (32:09.82)
Yeah. And I think that’s the I think that’s the theme. You know, I think it it it’s companies that are going to be deploying solutions that you probably wouldn’t have naturally thought they would, you know? and using them at scale and harvesting the data and the interpretation of that data for meaningful business context. and as you say, the convergence that we have at the moment at the edge and with physical AI and you know the various different components, you know, I I think

I think it is exciting to see it more kind of ubiquitous, right? And you know, fragment rather than sorry, not fragmented, but you know, throughout all sectors of life, you know? But from a technology standpoint, it’s you know, it it’s nice to just see it in action and being used by not this kind of esoteric part of society, you know, where there’s only certain people using it or or people that know about it. I remember when I first started doing this podcast.

you know, you asked people what IoT was and it and they didn’t know, right? And and now now people get it, you know, devices connected to the internet. And that and I think that’s also the sign of success, isn’t it? That it starts to, you know, spread throughout, you know, normal society as well.

Wienke (33:25.069)
No, and I I think that’s also kind of kind of th that that also changed that narrative is that because nobody knew there was an opportunity for people to saying like that IT thing, that’s us. That’s either an amaz IT, Sigfox or Laura Wan would say no, that that’s us, right? And and now I think the people that need to know, the systems integrators, the people that make the solution that actually need to know about the technology behind it, because their customers don’t care, which

Tom White (33:39.202)
no.

Wienke (33:55.179)
which technology prints the bits and bytes from A to B. is that what what you see is that that they they all now are educated on these different fronts and on these different d types of technologies. So so the yeah the the maturities is much further than indeed like what is IT is now no okay like okay here’s my connectivity or my bitpipe wireless bitpipe and everybody and that comes at least at our conference they know

Okay, there’s many t to choose from. so so yeah, definitely that’s that’s now common notionary.

Tom White (34:34.63)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, fantastic. So, Winky, how can people find out a bit more about the Things Conference and and and sign up and you know, what where where do they need to go for this?

Wienke (34:44.363)
Yeah, sure. No, so if you want to be kind of the next part of the next four million of devices on the Things Industries, you just can go to thethingsindustries.com and then can we can help you out with with anything you need for Laura Wan. if you wanna kind of join our our kind of ecosystem pr project, the Things Conference, then go to thethingsconference dot com and and I’ll give you a a link for your show notes that people can order a free ma free ticket.

and yeah, that’s gonna be a lot of fun. We’re gonna have like a nice networking party on the Tuesday. and it’s gonna be kind of like a like a the program is extremely packed. I think we already have more than a hundred speakers, we have a more than a hundred partners. we have great panels, great yeah. We’re we’re gonna have this really exciting opening keynote where we put all wireless

Tom White (35:29.863)
Wow.

Wienke (35:43.429)
alliances and standard organizations on stage and they’re gonna have like a joint panel about about ecosystem about what they where their their technology fits so that’s gonna be super cool. I’m very much looking forward to that and yeah whatever it’s IT security, wireless, edge I will find it. and it’s an Amsterdam and that’s that that’s a really easy to reach place. there’s slides from everywhere in the and

Tom White (35:50.534)
Okay.

Wienke (36:13.139)
There’s hotels available enough in in that September time. So twenty two, twenty three of September in in Amsterdam.

Tom White (36:21.65)
Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. De site the site actually for our viewers and listers is very informative. So I think it actually lists at a number of hotels that people can stay at, how to get there and so on and so forth. And as you say, Amsterdam’s a bit of a hub for for many people, right? From around Europe and the US. But yeah, h a hundred speakers in two days. Wow, you don’t do things by half, Winky.

Wienke (36:40.993)
No, no, and it it’s but it’s a and of course they’ll record it, but it’s it’s great. And that also kind of it’s really great to to have all these speakers and have all these experts and then yeah, and it’s also small enough that you can you can if you’re yeah, you can talk to anybody there, right? So any speaker is available. It’s it’s it is it is not a small event, but it it’s two and a half thousand people and it’s

It’s a it’s a great niche event where everybody speaks the same IoT language. and and yeah it’s i it is wonderful.

Tom White (37:16.818)
Yeah, well looking forward to it. So I’m gonna be there in person, I think, with some of my team as well. So if anyone watching sees that and wants to give me some feedback on the podcast, feel free to come up and and ha heckle me at some stand. Winky, I don’t know if you’re expecting this or not, but I’m gonna drop it on you anyway. But when we kinda near the end of these podcasts, we always ask the guests to nominate someone else to come on the podcast in the future. who might who might you nominate to come onto the IoT podcast, Winky?

Wienke (37:42.081)
Wienke (37:46.605)
did our soul already join once? O Saul Bangal?

Tom White (37:49.617)
I think Afsel yeah, I think Afsal Mangal. Yeah. I think Afsal did come onto the podcast. I’m looking at Katie to see if Afsil did come onto the podcast. I think no, I think he declined. Not that he didn’t want to come on, I think he was busy. Yeah. So yeah, if you’re watching Afsal, you need to come on.

Wienke (38:01.877)
No, okay, then then I would say yeah, I will I will I will send him a message right now. But he no, he’s doing some sure super interesting stuff right now and he is he is perfect for I I cannot share what he’s doing. He should share what what what what but yeah, I lo I love his book. I love him as a he’s a great person and he he’s doing some really really cool stuff behind the scenes at the moment.

Tom White (38:10.744)
Tom White (38:26.727)
Yeah.

Wienke (38:33.941)
And I I really think you should be be talking to him soon.

Tom White (38:37.52)
Yeah. Yeah, I will. In fact, you’ve reminded me, yeah, because I I he gave me his book once at Hardware Pioneers and I haven’t spoken to him in a few in a few years, I think, actually now. Crikey, it’s been a long time. but I’ll definitely do that. Wik Wiki, it’s been absolutely wonderful having you on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining. and I and I really meant this when I said that, you know, I think what you’ve done is is incredible. both with the things industries and and four million connected devices and growing.

and also creating a conference, right? You get two and a half thousand people turning up. I mean, we we we have created our own conferences and I think yours is one that inspires us and inspires a lot of people and it’s what’s needed for the ecosystem, especially in this day and age. So I really hope that everyone looks in the show notes and picks up the comments and comes along to Amsterdam on the twenty second and twenty-third of September because it’s going to be a really good couple of days.

Wienke (39:29.869)
All right, thanks a lot. Thanks for having me. Thanks for these kind words. And then we see each other in Amsterdam.

Tom White (39:35.401)
I’ll see you real soon. Thank you, Wienke.