Maximising IoT Performance with Next-Generation Broadband

Brad:
So here we go then, another episode of the IoT Podcast. And this time around, we’re absolutely delighted to have yourself on with us, Duncan. As always, the obvious place to start is just an introduction to you, the business, your background. So for the sake of the listeners, who are you and what do you do?

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah. So hi everyone. My name is Duncan Tobias. I’m the founder and CEO of Brill Band. And we are a Challenger broadband provider based up in Glasgow. For us, you know, I sort of got really frustrated with how I was being treated as a broadband customer. To condense the story a little bit. I then decided to do a little bit of research. Next thing I knew I had an old net straight Challenger brand. And we’re now got numerous customers joining us. Yeah, we’re now on this sort of, I guess, journey of growth, discovery, but most importantly, building a business that’s focused around our customer and treating our customer as a human being. We use tech to do that. And then also leveraging, I guess, technology to support our team in ensuring that that human touch and experience remains whilst living it. An awesome service.

Brad:
Nice, good. I think that’s one of the key issues that we’ll touch on or probably come back up to. It’s just the treatment that a lot of average people get from broadband, whether it’s just cut off or just the promise to speeds of that you’re never going to get all that sort of stuff. Before we go into all that sort of stuff, what might be quite good is just give us a little bit of an insight on what you did before this in terms of you as a person and your background on life,

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah,

Brad:
basically.

Duncan Di Biase:
that’s cool. So I started my career selling gym memberships.

Brad:
Thanks.

Duncan Di Biase:
At the first gym job I got five within a month. Then I

Brad:
I’m

Duncan Di Biase:
ended

Brad:
sorry.

Duncan Di Biase:
up at Virgin. That was a much more successful career there. I climbed my way up the ladder. I was sales manager of one of their clubs, which is at Riverside. I’m not sure if they’re in that anymore. I was then… told I should apply for Gartner by one of their employees and went and worked at Gartner. Survived there for five months

Brad:
Okay.

Duncan Di Biase:
and then unfortunately, yeah, lost that job. So then I sort of sat to look at my thumbs thinking, what should I do? And start-ups seem to be the place that fitted me and my personality. I see a problem, I want to solve it. And I think that’s why things think they’re so well in the other roles. you know, that I’d lost in the past. Um, so I went and worked at a startup called Henschmann in London. They were doing one hour delivery, uh, all across London back in 2014, 2015. Um, that’s a lie. 2015, 2016, sorry. Um, and then I, um, I worked with them actually on, on, on pivoting the business to a, a, a beta B model from a B to C. They were then acquired by a business called RICO logistics. Um, uh, I then went. and did a brief spell with the software side of the company, Captain AI. The CEO and I agreed that it wasn’t the right time to have a sales individual in that business because they were building out all the AI functionality. That’s that business is now over in Canada and Ryan’s doing, doing his thing over there. And, and I sort of looked at my partner, Helena, who’s now my wife, and was like, we should start a business supporting startups to raise capital. We’ve both done that and had exposure to it, she a lot more so than I. And yeah, that’s sort of, we, we built that business. It’s been going for close to six years now. And I stepped away from that in the pandemic, or just pre pandemic, sort of beginning of,

Brad:
Hmm.

Duncan Di Biase:
I had worked myself a little bit into the ground, burnt out anxiety and depression, and stress induced anxiety and depression. And, and it was, Brill Band was born because I was on on the, um, on the phone to my, or not on the phone, but on a zoom call to

Brad:
Hmm.

Duncan Di Biase:
my, uh, my counselor, um, and it kept cutting out. And, and

Brad:
Wow.

Duncan Di Biase:
it was, it just was really anxiety inducing that having to try and call BT at the time.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Um, and I was on hold for, for ages. And the more, the longer and longer I was on hold, the more and more anxiety built up just because I didn’t want to speak to anyone external at the time. I was like, why can’t I just deal with this? Like I do with Starling where I can just mess with someone in that. And that sent me down the rabbit hole and here we are today.

Brad:
Yeah. I can hear you, I’d say. Honestly, it’s one of the best ways that I… It’s hard to explain what is in my head, but the way that you found Brill Band and the reason behind the whole wanting to do it is real close at home. A lot of people, well, most of the viewers won’t know that stress-induced anxiety and depression is something that I’ve struggled with quite a lot in the past from work-related issues. Likewise, I’ve done many a teams meeting with counselors and have many an internet issue. So it’s really positive to see someone turn that into a good thing and use it as a step up into into what you are now, which I’m sure we can touch on too. So from me,

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah.

Brad:
just as a person, and I’m sure someone listens, we’ll back it up. Like congratulations, man. Like this is just a great story to be able to share. So yeah, well done. No,

Duncan Di Biase:
I appreciate

Brad:
it’s

Duncan Di Biase:
it.

Brad:
good. Real band then. So Let’s go into this. You’ve given us a bit of a background on it, but I suppose that’s touching to what it actually is. So I mentioned it at the start that delivering some of the speeds that you can’t, that you don’t actually get from some of the mainstream providers. Let’s go into, so what does this, what does Breelband mean to the customer? What speed do you provide and how do you do it?

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah, so we wanted to really simplify things. At the end of the day, we really want to create the most loved broadband provider on the planet. Now that sounds really airy-fairy, I know. The way to do that, though, we believe was to simplify everything because broadband, Wi-Fi, all of it’s quite complicated for people that aren’t well versed in it, and that’s probably 99% of the population. One percent of the population are really, no bits of Bob will know about, CGNet will know about. static IP addresses, port forwarding, all these different buzzwords, but fundamentally people just want broadband that works. And so we partnered with City Fiber to leverage their infrastructure. So think of them as the pipes really, okay? They provide the pipes and then we build our service on top of that. And the way in which we’ve built our service is very much software defined. And this is where sort of the secret source of broadband lies. And we basically leverage a lot of cloud-based past services. Um, uh, and we combine that with tier one global network providers, um, to enable a very highly scalable, but cost effective solution that enables us to live a 900 megabyte per second speed symmetrical, so that’s 900 up, 900 down their average speeds. Um, we actually sit higher than those when we, when we do our internal monitoring, but we, we’ve rather on the. promise and over deliver, the noble promise and under deliver, which is seeing how the industry has been built on.

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
And,

Brad:
absolutely.

Duncan Di Biase:
and, and yeah, that enables us to deliver our price point of 35 pounds per month. We have no in contract price rises. And, and then it also enables us to provide the customer support and service that we provide, which is, which is looking at broadband, not as a luxury, so speed equaling price. And, and, you know, we’ll speak to you when we get to you. but more looking at how we can be proactive with our customer base, how we can notify customers that there’s going to be plan maintenance, how we can notify customers of outages before, you know, it’s all over BBC News and Twitter. And you see that with the incumbents. You see that recently, most recently with Virgin Media. You’ve got customers on BBC News reporting that, you know, they’re finding out by going onto Twitter, you know, and Facebook. That’s not right. So really it’s about making

Brad:
And

Duncan Di Biase:
and treating broadband like a vital commodity,

Brad:
then, yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
like

Brad:
Which

Duncan Di Biase:
you

Brad:
is

Duncan Di Biase:
would

Brad:
that?

Duncan Di Biase:
water and energy.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Because it’s fundamental to our way of living now. Everything’s connected within the home. And without it, people can’t, not only work, but a lot of people can’t get the support and medical support they need. We’ve got customers that rely heavily on the internet to do that, whether that’s through mental health or whether that’s through

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
therapy, physiotherapy, et cetera. through to education. So we fundamentally believe if we can do that, and if we can build a product that people love and people feel supported by, we intrinsically has a better impact on, on, on everybody really, everybody that’s our customer.

Brad:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, um, everything seems to be going really well. And again, we touched on, uh, it’s an industry that inevitably has like a used car salesman just got one of those

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah.

Brad:
reputations, doesn’t it? It just being a difficult industry, which is, uh, poor Wi-Fi activity. I’m assuming being the age that you’re the Brill Band is that you’ve come across some challenges. Um, so I’m intrigued to know what the challenges you faced are, but one of the follow-up questions to that will be. Did COVID and the lockdown and that sort of stuff have a big impact on the industry or Brillbound because of the, I’m assuming that the user demand went up quite a lot.

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah, so obviously program wasn’t live during COVID.

Brad:
Yes.

Duncan Di Biase:
I was at the time building the business. And intrinsically, I think, you know, it was great for the industry because to me, they were sort of thinking, oh, you know, look, everyone needs us. No one’s going to cancel their broadband contract, right? But I think it also made the industry think, oh God, like, our support functions are not up to scratch, and they still aren’t. And The reason they aren’t is because they’ve not been challenged. The way in which networks have been built, not really changed for 30 years, and particularly the operational support systems, they’re often considered last and off the shelf products that have been in play for again, years of plugged into other systems that plugged into other systems and you get this weird sort of Frankenstein effect that means, you know, they rely on IVR, you know, it’s 10 minutes before you even get through the IVR in some cases, and then you’re on hold to go and speak to someone. And. Realistically, that’s just not how things work in the in the 21st century. So we’ve got our companion app that we’ll be launching in end of May.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Um, so there’s a little exclusive for you.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
That will be very similar to your sort of your starling Monzo ask type type UX. Um, so you’ll be able to speak to as an app, you’ll be able to view all your billing, um, you know, basically do all the administrative parts of

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
being our customer in the palm of your hand, which is really important. And even levers, you’ll be able to levers in the palm of your hand. Okay. Cause again, we don’t want to entrap you again. That’s how the industry’s worked. Right.

Brad:
Hmm.

Duncan Di Biase:
It’s like, why is it so difficult to leave my provider? I just want to switch to somebody else.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Um, and we’ve got all that coming with one touch switching, but as you’ll have seen off common out doing an investigation into why the industry hasn’t moved with that. Well, we all know why.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
They don’t want to move with that. They want to make switching difficult. And that’s one of the challenges we’ve faced. We’ve faced

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
incumbent ISPs specifically, um, cutting people’s internet connections off on days we can’t install them.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
So they’ll do it on a Sunday. We don’t do installations at the weekend. City fiber don’t do installations at the weekend. Right. And these are, these are companies that utilize city fiber infrastructure. So they know it’s not something that’s like, Oh,

Brad:
Hmm.

Duncan Di Biase:
that was an accident.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Um, and these are the type of. the things that happen within the industry at a real ground level to try and keep and win custom. So I think I’ve gone a bit off topic

Brad:
No,

Duncan Di Biase:
here. I’ve

Brad:
no, it’s

Duncan Di Biase:
gone

Brad:
fine.

Duncan Di Biase:
down a rabbit

Brad:
No, you’ve

Duncan Di Biase:
hole.

Brad:
touched on challenges, which was the main question, to be fair, so you’re all right. In terms of some of the stuff that you’ve done and you’ve tried to, so you’ve got £35 a month price point, like the contracts and sort of stuff you touch on, have you ever had anyone come up to you and you’re putting these ideas on the table and they’ve gone, you’re mental? In that industry, it’s going to be, that’s never going to work.

Duncan Di Biase:
Oh, literally. Yeah. I mean, back in 2020, it was just me in a piece of paper and an idea, right. And I went and raised, I think it was, yeah, 660,000 combination of bench capital and industry angels. But that took a long time. That

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
took me over a year to complete that round. I’m not going to sit here and go, it was an overnight, you know, easy, easy, you know, like journey

Brad:
I’m a wizard.

Duncan Di Biase:
that we, yeah, that people spin PR, like, it’s a really easy thing to do. Um, but it’s not, it’s really, it was incredibly difficult. Um, and that was the number one thing, like your mental, how can you take on sky, how can you take on Virgin? How

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
can you take on BT? Well, it’s all someone has to. Right. Someone has to look at this, um, the, the incumbents and go, well, no one’s challenging them, so why would they change? And that’s not a bad thing. Like I’m not anti-incumbent, right? That’s, that’s toxic. You don’t want to be like that, but it’s like, Hey guys, the best way of doing this and we can be that better way. So, you know, we’re just going to show you and then if you decide to come and start doing what we’re doing, we’ll great, we welcome competition. Like

Brad:
Yes.

Duncan Di Biase:
that’s how we innovate as an industry. That’s how the consumer at the end of the day benefits. So competition for us is great. We want that. We’re not sat here going, we want to be the only one, you know, that’s just, that’s again, we’re going down that sort of weird PR spin, right? For

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
us, it’s just about showing that there is another way, disrupting a market that’s intrinsically steeped in technical and operational debt and path

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
to better pastures for us all really.

Brad:
Yeah, I think how many companies do we know that are probably household names now, or some being some of the biggest companies in the world? They would have started right at the same point as everyone else,

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah.

Brad:
at the bottom, but they’ve got a product that they know gives a solution and they’re disruptive and they challenge and that’s where they are now.

Duncan Di Biase:
Well, you look at the challenger banks, you look at the Monzo’s and the Starlings of the world right in

Brad:
Yep.

Duncan Di Biase:
the UK. And Tom, for the first 3000 customers at Monzo, they were sending those cards out via the post. They were just packing them in the office. The first 3000

Brad:
Hmm.

Duncan Di Biase:
Monzo prepaid cards, that’s what it was originally, it was anti-bank, we don’t want to be a bank.

Brad:
Yep.

Duncan Di Biase:
They were sending those out via, same with Starling, it has to start from somewhere. We wouldn’t let the feud go in there, I don’t want to get into any. I don’t want to get involved

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
in that.

Brad:
that’s

Duncan Di Biase:
Right.

Brad:
a proper rabbit hop.

Duncan Di Biase:
But both of them have become a household challenge of brands that people use every day. Millions of people use them. And they had to start from, I’m going

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
to tackle a bank. One was anti-bank and one was going, well, the banking system is broken. And that was a COO at RBS. So we need to be looking at industries the way they did. And I think, you know, we’ve seen it in energy. We saw it with Octaverse and we saw it with Bold to a certain extent, obviously. sad what happened to them but fundamentally the heart was in the right place it was challenged the establishment right and we need to now do the same with broadband and connectivity.

Brad:
I’m almost convinced as people listen to this podcast, they’ve had ideas or they’ve come across challenges in life that they could probably put their mind to it and come up with a solution that works for them that will work for a lot of different people. So I urge them to listen to this and take it on board. Going back to something you mentioned to me a few days ago, you mentioned about a device plugging into something, then plugging into something else, something else. So as we all know, a lot of it’s around the internet of things. So when it comes to the internet of things and your solution. when you’re talking to manufacturers and that sort of stuff. So how do you go about ensuring the IoT devices’ compatibility with Brillbound and how it all works?

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah, so we follow codes set by the TM forum and the Met forum. So they’re

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
big international

Brad:
okay.

Duncan Di Biase:
bodies that really stipulate how you should build networks to ensure that there’s compatibility with devices. And then it’s about being selected with your partners. So for us, we’re partnered with Amazon. This is an arrow here. So this is actually the router that we give a customer. It’s quite cool looking bit of kit.

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
And it’s

Brad:
tidy.

Duncan Di Biase:
capable of a 1.2 gigabyte connection into it. And we don’t do 1.2. gigabyte connect, we do a 900 on.

Brad:
I’m gonna

Duncan Di Biase:
So

Brad:
go to

Duncan Di Biase:
why

Brad:
bed.

Duncan Di Biase:
do you get 900 off this device and you will get a wireless speed, anything of around 600 sort of download and upload. We’ve got customers reporting upload speeds of anywhere between 700 and 800 with this route. And that’s plenty for your everyday user, right?

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Now we do have one, we have the one percenters that we call them internally and they’re great. fantastic customers. They give us brilliant feedback. And these are people that are tech savvy, they understand what they’re talking about. And they may want, for example, more more ports on the backs of the two there, so you can

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
put one wide device in. So again, we’re working with them on identifying we have identified the perfect switch that they can they can plug into this, which is 14 quid and gives them you know, 10 different wide

Brad:
Nice.

Duncan Di Biase:
ports. But again, we’re going back to what is the program built for, right? It’s built for everybody.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
and we have the service as many people as we probably can. Most people just want a stable wireless connection around the home. And here before they were acquired by Amazon, I was monitoring them. Actually, I was quite fascinated by their journey. And when they were acquired by Amazon, it was, you know, it was a sure fire way in ensuring that the router that we were supplying our customer was not only one of the best routers on the market, it is an award winning device,

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
but also was going to be compatible with, you know, your Samsung smartphone, your iPhone, your PlayStation. And but but then again, you’ll still get varied Wi Fi speeds. And there’s loads of reasons why no Wi Fi provider can broadband provider. That’s why we’re not Wi Fi providers, right? No broadband provider can can guarantee wireless speeds in in homes and guarantee wired speeds. And we do that. But wireless speeds are so many factors. And this is where, again, you look at the different industry standards. that have been implemented. So that’s where you get your Wi-Fi 5, your Wi-Fi 6, and Wi-Fi 6E

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
currently.

Brad:
and there we go. The segue. Let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about WiFi 6 and 6E. So I know

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah,

Brad:
you go

Duncan Di Biase:
cool.

Brad:
into quite a lot of detail when we spoke about it off camera. So, well, let’s start off with the obvious. What is WiFi 6 and what is 6E?

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah, so they’re just standards, just industry standards, right? So, um, and it saves you having to learn this like really long code of, of, of basically numbers and digits. So realistically, Wi Fi six was launched, I believe in, well, I know that this Wi Fi six device, right, was launched in 2020. Okay.

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
So I’m just

Brad:
everyone’s

Duncan Di Biase:
going to go

Brad:
getting

Duncan Di Biase:
with that,

Brad:
goobered

Duncan Di Biase:
right?

Brad:
up as we speak. Hehehehe.

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah, exactly. So I’m going to avoid dates because I

Brad:
Hehehehe.

Duncan Di Biase:
don’t have Google

Brad:
Hehehehe.

Duncan Di Biase:
in front of me. Okay. This is all for memory. So

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
be kind. I think for me it’s more along the lines of Wi-Fi 6 basically will enable you to run these sorts of speeds that we do, but it will also mean that your devices around the home will do better routing. It will make sure that each device is getting enough bandwidth and those devices, because they’ve got higher grade chipsets in, so more advanced, so there’s different brands out there, right? they can run at faster speeds. Okay. Now there are legacy devices in homes that are running Wi-Fi 5 and lower that will not be able to achieve speeds. So you may have a 900 megabyte connection into your property, but on one device you only receive 100 megabytes per second, right? And that’s got nothing to do with our service or ours BTs, you know, anyone’s right? That’s due with the chipsets and the device. It’s not just chipsets. Okay. So again, the standard will dictate how many antenna you have in the device as well. So you’ve got the wireless chip, you’ve then got the wireless antenna that’s in that device and that’s how they receive the signal. And then you’ve also got processing power that can also play a part in how your device connects to the network and what speeds your device is capable of. To give some context, Wi-Fi 6 is running PlayStation 5. is run in the latest iPhone 14. Now the latest standard Wi-Fi 6E is not running those devices. It

Brad:
Okay.

Duncan Di Biase:
is running some very expensive high-end devices. So some laptops will run it. Some of the newest Apple Macs will be running Wi-Fi 6E now, but they are, you know, you’re talking 2,000 pound plus investments into that

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
sort of kit. So again, when we looked at what devices have Wi-Fi 6E in them, very few. Wi-Fi 6 is more adopted, but again, to put in perspective, the brand new Xbox is still Wi-Fi 5, right? So it’s not a Wi-Fi 6 compatible device. And it’s a gaming device, one of the biggest gaming consoles in the world. And here’s where it gets even more obscure, right? So even if you’re building to the Wi-Fi 6 standard and you’ve got the chipset and the antenna, Wi-Fi 6 is standard and you’ve got the chipset, the antenna, the processor. Manufacturers… because of margins, will make decisions based on the quality of the chipset that goes in, the amount of processing power, the number of antennae, which all have an impact on the speed that that device will receive. So this is why we bring it all back to it’s a Wi-Fi 6 compatible device. The likelihood is if it’s a Wi-Fi 6 compatible device, it’s built to Wi-Fi 6 standard, so you’re going to get a good connectivity, but you’re not going to get balanced connectivity around your home. And it’s one of the

Brad:
Okay,

Duncan Di Biase:
common queries

Brad:
right.

Duncan Di Biase:
we get, right, is why do I get 200 megabytes to do on this device and 600 megabytes to the next year on this device? Again, I’m exaggerating a little bit there on the

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
speeds,

Brad:
yeah, yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
but, but the reason why is likelihood is, is because the chipsets from those devices, other things that have massive impact on, on, on your Wi-Fi signal around your home and on your connected devices will be building materials. So, um, big glass walls like this, they’re a nightmare. for Wi-Fi

Brad:
Okay.

Duncan Di Biase:
signals. If we look at lots of new builds in the UK are built with wire-backed plasterboard, you’re basically building a Faraday cage in the room, right? So when the door’s open, I get Wi-Fi signal. When the door’s closed, I don’t get Wi-Fi signal. The reason being is that’s the only way the signal can get in and out of that room. And then if you look at older builds… So I’m in Glasgow, I live in a tenement building. So I live in a big sandstone blocks. So you’re like, well, that’s why it’s really, it’s built

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
like a bunker. So, there’s so many variables that will affect your IoT devices around your property, but also your business, right? And these are the things you need to consider. So if you’re building a new home, if you are building an office. right? And you need good connectivity to your IT devices. You really need to be thinking about materials that you are deploying into that space. And you also, if you’re a particular business, when you’re making decisions on equipment kit and you’re highly dependent on, you know, on wireless devices, you need to be looking at not only the wifi standard that it’s using, but also the quality of the kit within the, the, the devices itself. So. We’ve had this high copy of conversations with some PC gamers recently that go, I’ve got this game, this console, that what’s the life of chips that you’ve got in there? Oh, well, I saved, I saved some money on that because you know, it’s just wireless chips and no, that’s

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
why you’re not getting the speeds, you know, you’re only, you’re only able to get 300 megabytes per second at device because of the wireless chipset that you put in the, the, the combination of the wireless chipset antennas that you put in the device. So

Brad:
That’s just

Duncan Di Biase:
yeah,

Brad:
one of

Duncan Di Biase:
there’s

Brad:
the things

Duncan Di Biase:
things.

Brad:
I’ve actually written down. So I’ve written down capabilities with an arrow because you mentioned that new Xbox, it’s actually resonates again, close to me because I’ve literally just brought a PlayStation 5 but for a while I was looking at either or.

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah.

Brad:
So in terms of the capabilities of, it doesn’t have to be gaming, but of a product with Wi-Fi 5, a product with Wi-Fi 6, and then a product with 6E, what are you expecting, just quicker or?

Duncan Di Biase:
just yeah quicker um it’s marginal six and six is very marginal right it’s

Brad:
Okay.

Duncan Di Biase:
not it’s not huge it’s like going from an iphone you know

Brad:
You

Duncan Di Biase:
an

Brad:
mentioned a lot of money more.

Duncan Di Biase:
iphone i’m not an iphone customer i’m a samsung guy so

Brad:
Hi.

Duncan Di Biase:
don’t don’t knock me apple right all

Brad:
We

Duncan Di Biase:
our laptops

Brad:
literally,

Duncan Di Biase:
at work

Brad:
in

Duncan Di Biase:
are

Brad:
the office

Duncan Di Biase:
apple

Brad:
today,

Duncan Di Biase:
right but

Brad:
and Beth who’s listening in, who’s our creative director today, she sent out an email, because we’ve done something on our profile pictures and I’ll link it, but in order to do it really well, you have to have an iPhone to do it. And someone

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah.

Brad:
had a lot of issues with an Android phone. And it was actually me emailing around saying, I’m assuming if you’ve got an Android phone, you still take your notes on the NetJuSketch. And it’s just

Duncan Di Biase:
Well you’re

Brad:
one

Duncan Di Biase:
not

Brad:
of the,

Duncan Di Biase:
far

Brad:
it’s just

Duncan Di Biase:
off

Brad:
one of the,

Duncan Di Biase:
to be

Brad:
it’s

Duncan Di Biase:
fair.

Brad:
just.

Duncan Di Biase:
You’re not like… I’m back in time.

Brad:
It’s just one of those things, I don’t know why. I mean, they do some great things. My other hat’s got always Android. But

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah, I’ve just always been a Samsung

Brad:
you

Duncan Di Biase:
man.

Brad:
keep

Duncan Di Biase:
I don’t

Brad:
using

Duncan Di Biase:
know

Brad:
the,

Duncan Di Biase:
why.

Brad:
it means something though, because you keep going back to an iPhone even though you don’t use it.

Duncan Di Biase:
No, well, yeah, I mean, I’m using the iPhone reference because most people I think from this podcast might have an iPhone.

Brad:
Other brands

Duncan Di Biase:
But yeah,

Brad:
are available.

Duncan Di Biase:
I mean, yeah, they are indeed Samsung. Yeah, but I think I think my point is, it’s pretty negligible. And

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
to be honest with you, even with Wi Fi 5, but you know, there’s a reason why Microsoft has decided to put a Wi Fi 5 chipset in the Xbox, right? And, and it’s, I think that’s it, really, it’s just, you know, all of these codes sit there. But the grand scheme of things, what do we really need? We really need bandwidth in homes, okay? And that’s what our focus is. So that’s what the 900’s there, okay? The 900 is not necessarily gonna give you 900 speed, unless you wire it in, okay?

Brad:
Mm-hmm.

Duncan Di Biase:
It’s more about giving your property the bandwidth to run multiple IoT devices throughout your home. Because connected homes are happening. It’s not, we always hear it’s a thing of the future. No, it’s now.

Brad:
That is not, yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
It’s now, and it’s growing at a rapid rate. Far quicker than… I believe what’s being reported, you know, we’ve got, we’ve got, you know, listen to the parenting health podcast, actually, you’re a proper kit and Josh Riddick and, and, you know, people write in, they’ve got kids with like iPhone’s age 10, you know,

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
like, you know, and younger news, I think he was talking about six year old with an iPhone. I’m like, this is, this is nuts. So, you know, one of the things that, that, that we are, we are very focused on is making sure our customers can can monitor those devices and manage those devices. And again, that’s why that partnership with Eero was selected because we can leverage a lot of the tools that they have already built to address that. And the problem we’re trying to really solve is making connectivity and bandwidth accessible, right?

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
And accessible price point that’s not only great for customers and great for the team, because a lot of those savings that we have made in the core, we pass on to our entry level team. So we pay 20% more than BT for a customer

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
support team, right? it’s bonkers. And then it uses far less energy. So we use far less energy, far less, 75% less hardware. So the impact on the planet is, is fantastic, because

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
you know, we’re not we’re not causing as much impact, and we’re not causing as much waste. And so yeah, sort of our

Brad:
But yeah, it’s something that I urge you to talk more about, to be fair, in terms of that sort of stuff, because sustainability and all that sort of stuff is huge at the moment. And I’m really

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah.

Brad:
glad that you’ve mentioned that smart homes are here and not coming, because I still see on LinkedIn all day, people saying, oh, smart homes are coming. Even my mum, for instance, she’s like, oh, I would never have a smart home, and she sat there with her Kindle on her lap, her iPhone

Duncan Di Biase:
Alexa Alexa.

Brad:
12, sat next to her smart electric meter, watching Disney Plus on her Amazon Fire Stick, and I’m like, mum. You are already here. It’s

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah.

Brad:
just something you’ve got to get used to, I’m afraid. What’s the future then? Let’s talk about the future of where it all goes. So actually before that, there is a point that you made on the new build stuff, because I’ve just moved into new build. Is there something in the pipeline, whether it’s yourself or someone else, or is it already happening? People going into and saying that, why are you still building new homes with this material? Was there another two materials to be looked at, or

Duncan Di Biase:
I think

Brad:
something

Duncan Di Biase:
there are, look,

Brad:
better?

Duncan Di Biase:
I’m not gonna sit here and pretend to be a builder, right? Like,

Brad:
Yeah, yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
you know,

Brad:
of course.

Duncan Di Biase:
but there are certainly other ways of doing things, but there are also more traditional ways of doing things.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
But I think we’re a country that’s in crisis everywhere, you

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
know, like when you read the news, right? And one of those things is a housing crisis. And so how do you build homes quickly, efficiently? These are things that that industry needs to look at, but. You know, one thing that I would urge any developer to be doing when it comes to property is be put in connectivity alongside your, you know, boiler, your, um, gas, your electric, right? Don’t put it’s like, it’s mad. This is, we had, uh, we worked with a guy and he had a flat on his beautiful flat in London, right? And, um, he, uh, new build, um, Justin Canary war. squillions like these these expensive properties right the ONT for the full fiber connection that went into the property is in the airing cupboards so you

Brad:
It’s surrounded

Duncan Di Biase:
like come

Brad:
by metal

Duncan Di Biase:
on

Brad:
pipes. Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
yeah well metal pipe is this inner cupboard in the back room like no

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
one’s sitting in their airing cup and gaming are they like when if they are well look you know that

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
might be Harry Potter but you know it’s the only person that I know that would be would be potentially doing that we

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
probably have to call child line and

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
or any other service out there to support them. But look, you know, it’s, it’s mad, right? So

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
that’s my my urge, you know, property developers

Brad:
Just

Duncan Di Biase:
to

Brad:
to be

Duncan Di Biase:
start

Brad:
cautious

Duncan Di Biase:
taking

Brad:
of

Duncan Di Biase:
connectivity

Brad:
it, yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
seriously, right? And, and really think about the building materials that they’re using as well. But that’s like not wading into that, right? We’ve got

Brad:
Yeah, exactly

Duncan Di Biase:
a load of spam.

Brad:
that. Let’s get back to the question that I was going to ask, which is the future. So

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah.

Brad:
what in your mind, what is the future? I know we as a certain number we won’t go into, but what’s the future of 6, 6e, Wi-Fi? But also once you’ve gone on to that, what’s next for you? What’s next for Brill Band?

Duncan Di Biase:
I think in terms of the industry, the industry will continue, you know, improve standards. They will make innovations. They will, I hope, bring down the price of chipsets. But, you know, that’s where there’s been an issue within the industry in general is, you know, all of these things require resource, silicon, copper, you know, where does all this stuff come from? Well, a lot of it comes from the Congo. A lot of it comes from, from unfortunate areas where there is. a lot of the privacy and a lack of stability. And the labor in those areas can’t be guaranteed that they’re free from child labor or things like that. So I think there’s two things here, right? We’ve got to develop as an industry, but at the same time, there is innovation for innovation sake, right? And sometimes I think as an industry, we need to stop and go, hold on, it’s connectivity. At a point where people can do what we’re doing right now. You know, it’s

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
like, I’m

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
in Glasgow, you’re down in London or Manchester that you guys are based. I think it’s all over,

Brad:
I’m

Duncan Di Biase:
isn’t

Brad:
actually

Duncan Di Biase:
it? I don’t know.

Brad:
in Bristol today, to be fair. Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Bristol today. There we go. So, you know, we’re doing this right now. Like we’re at opposite

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
ends of the UK. Okay. Like,

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
um, so I do think the industry needs to look at that. And for us, you know, as I said at the beginning, really, you know, we want to be the most local event provider on the planet. Okay. Now that doesn’t mean the biggest, okay. I don’t want to. I know take over the world or so what Elon Musk wants to do, put satellites in space and then advertise Tesla’s

Brad:
Pinky in the

Duncan Di Biase:
to

Brad:
brain.

Duncan Di Biase:
us.

Brad:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah, or in the brain. Um, but you know, like cool, right? You know, go and do those things. But, but for us, it’s just about fundamentally making sure that, that our customers, um, have the connections they need. Um, when things go wrong, there’s someone at the other end of the phone. And by other end of the phone, I don’t mean. you know, the old

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
school, I mean, the smartphone, you know, just type

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
it to us,

Brad:
yeah, yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
like, tell us, right. Um, and, um, and on our website, again, we’ve got live chat on there anyway, and it answered in like 30 seconds. I’m sure people are gonna now start, start testing that out. Um, be kind. Um, the,

Brad:
It’s been

Duncan Di Biase:
uh,

Brad:
35

Duncan Di Biase:
but

Brad:
seconds

Duncan Di Biase:
yeah,

Brad:
and no one’s replied.

Duncan Di Biase:
yeah, right. Um, but, but really, you’re gonna get a response. Okay.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
And, and I think for me, um, That’s it. Fundamentally for us, it’s about looking at expanding throughout the rest of the UK. And then we do have our own European expansion as well.

Brad:
Nice.

Duncan Di Biase:
The brilliance about the way in which we’ve built our network means that we can manage everything from one central location, because it’s cloud-based, so we can manage, for example, a network in Spain here. And all we need to do is place local teams so that we really understand the culture and the people. As I said, people sit at the core of this company. And so we can service those people and their cultures effectively, because for us fundamentally culture sits at the heart of, well, I personally from business, but culture sits at the heart

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
of everything we do and it sits at the heart of our business as well. So if we nail that, we feel that we can achieve our goals.

Brad:
Nice, love it. I think for the moment that me, you and my CEO, Tom, or the other host, I’ll call him,

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah.

Brad:
we spoke months ago, me and Tom both came off that call. We always talk to people that provide technology, technology for good, all that sort of stuff. Very rarely is there a technology that we can physically see ourselves using to a

Duncan Di Biase:
Get

Brad:
personal,

Duncan Di Biase:
a touch.

Brad:
and we both got off it, and we were like, that is something that when it’s available that we’re going to look into. So I think what you’ve done is brilliant. Again, I go back to the way that it was founded and what it meant to you at the time is brilliant. So huge congratulations. I wish you all the best of luck with everything. And I think the future is very bright. To finalize, we always wrap up with a few questions, some quickfire ones, one from the audience, and then just your future prediction for outside of your industry. So we’ll start with that one. So if you can think of something that… isn’t directly related to BrailleBand or BroadBand, what do you predict for something within IoT for 2023 to be a big standout?

Duncan Di Biase:
Oh, that’s actually, that’s a good one. I’m underprepared for it.

Brad:
Could be anything.

Duncan Di Biase:
What do I think?

Brad:
That’s

Duncan Di Biase:
Do

Brad:
both.

Duncan Di Biase:
you know

Brad:
Think

Duncan Di Biase:
what

Brad:
of a

Duncan Di Biase:
I

Brad:
buzzword.

Duncan Di Biase:
think? I think, no, do you know what I think? I think I was fortunate enough to be in Finland just in November at Slush, but prior to that I was at Nokia’s headquarters. And I think private wireless 5G networks is something that I think

Brad:
Okay.

Duncan Di Biase:
in… in 2023 will take off. I

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
think they’re

Brad:
sure.

Duncan Di Biase:
fantastic. They’re fantastic bits of kit, very simple to deploy and provide a level of security. The businesses within logistics, armed forces, space, telecom can

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
can leverage quite quite well. So I think that take off.

Brad:
5G as a whole is just astronomically big and what people, companies that we deal with from databases companies on the podcast. Yeah, 5G is just game changing for so many different reasons. One that you hopefully will be more prepared for, question from the audience. How do you handle issues like network congestion and bandwidth limitations when it comes to supporting a large number of IoT devices on your network?

Duncan Di Biase:
So we don’t throttle anything. So that’s just about planning and

Brad:
Yep.

Duncan Di Biase:
preparation, having the right partnerships in place, providing the right routers. Like I said, but ensuring that we have the right tier one global network providers working with us and buying the right amount of data on our side to support our customers access the global internet.

Brad:
Nice, nice, cool. Finally, three quickfire questions. Can’t remember the last time these were actually quickfire because they do tend to create some conversation, but first one, a quote that you live by or a quote that you

Duncan Di Biase:
Oof.

Brad:
love.

Duncan Di Biase:
Oh, okay.

Brad:
Hahaha!

Duncan Di Biase:
Wow. Do you know what? I do like Nike’s just do it.

Brad:
Yeah, nice.

Duncan Di Biase:
Right. And, and, and I can give you another one, which is just keep it simple. Right. I think when things actually, do you know which one I’m going to use? I’ve just given you two is quite generic, right. But there’s one that I heard recently. And it was from just take a beat, right? Take a beat.

Brad:
Okay.

Duncan Di Biase:
Before making decision making a judgment, right for answering something I should have done here, right? So I’m not living by the thing that I should have done right.

Brad:
Love it.

Duncan Di Biase:
Just take a beat.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Because a beat, right? Three seconds, right? It’s, it’s, and that doesn’t affect anything, but it allows you to make a considered decision and considered answer. And actually, do you know what I think society on a whole should be doing that we should be less reactionary. Is that even a word? We shouldn’t react, right?

Brad:
It’s now.

Duncan Di Biase:
We should be being more thoughtful and can see.

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah. Let’s be more considered right with everybody because you know if it’s someone you don’t like or someone with different opinion, right? Just take a beat take a moment Consider it you have to agree with it, but consider your reactions there right and and again that’s something that I try and live by

Brad:
Yeah, very much. I love it. I’m reading a book at the moment. And it basically talks about how you react to certain situations and how your brain thinks. So it takes something in, whether it’s information, and immediately your chimp reacts to it. They call it the chimp in the book. And it’s just, you do something reacts, whether it’s road rage, or whether it’s a decision that you make, and then you sit down, you think, probably should have done that. Or that’s not got me anywhere. And really, if you take that. that little bit of a second or take a beat as you say, and use your human side of the brain and react like that. That’s where a lot of the time, and do you know what, there’s been so many times, because I can be quite a straight talking person, sometimes too much, but a lot of the time, I tell you what, I’ll give you a recent reason, someone reversed into my car not so long ago, and it’s dead at the door quite badly, and I’ve only had the car for about three months. and he just reversed into me. He must have seen me. Anyway, I sat in the car, I sat in the wheel and I was like, this is your chimp thinking right now. I won’t tell you what was going through my head because

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah

Brad:
it’s expletive, but this is your chimp talking. I got out of the car, shook his hand, I said, let me make these things happen. Bah, bah, bah, we dealt with it. We didn’t go through the car insurance. That is a choice of everyone else, you can do, but he paid for it, we got it sorted, resolved. Still speak to him to this day, lovely bloke. And it’s just like… if I’d have got out of the car and reacted in a way that I thought I was going to, but I didn’t. I took a beat, as you say, and the outcome was just so much better. So fair play. This is what I mean. It’s never a quick fire. Question number two. I’m excited by your answer to this one. If a film was to be made about Duncan, what actor would play you?

Duncan Di Biase:
Ryan Gosling all day. Quick buy,

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
done.

Brad:
fair enough. Yeah, Jason

Duncan Di Biase:
Done.

Brad:
Statham’s mine.

Duncan Di Biase:
There we go, I

Brad:
For

Duncan Di Biase:
can

Brad:
obvious

Duncan Di Biase:
see it. I

Brad:
reasons.

Duncan Di Biase:
can see it, so just done. There you go.

Brad:
You can see

Duncan Di Biase:
Next.

Brad:
it. Ah,

Duncan Di Biase:
Ha

Brad:
yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
ha

Brad:
all

Duncan Di Biase:
ha.

Brad:
the thousands of listeners heard that. I’m going to play this to my missus. See? Told you. If you could learn one new skill, what would it be and why?

Duncan Di Biase:
I was thinking about this recently to be honest. I think I really loved to learn the language.

Brad:
Yeah,

Duncan Di Biase:
I didn’t really take

Brad:
nice.

Duncan Di Biase:
it seriously enough at school. Because everything is so easy, you just go abroad on holiday and then you just speak in English. And it’s like, oh, I’d love to be able to speak Spanish or Italian, you know, and converse with people. And as I said earlier, sort of embrace their culture

Brad:
Yeah.

Duncan Di Biase:
because I think actually that, you always just sort of feel on the edge. even

Brad:
Mm-hmm.

Duncan Di Biase:
if you are going on like a real traveling backpackers holiday, like you’re not able to fully immerse yourself. So I think that that’s what I’d have to go to do.

Brad:
Good touch, yeah, love it. That’s a wrap. I suppose the best place to finally end is tell us where we can find you, tell us where we can find Brill Band website. Actually, it might be good, so not only give us your social media, so website, LinkedIn, all that sort of stuff, but tell people where the coverage is for Brill Band at the moment as well.

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah, it’s good. It’s a both are good questions. So let’s start with the my both easy. You can find us Brill Band and Instagram, just just type in Brill Band at Brill Band. That’s us. And it’d be great if you could give us a follow. You know, we’re going to be we’re doing some fun things. And then in terms of me, you can find me on LinkedIn, you can find Brill Band on LinkedIn as well. Please, again, do give us a follow. Startup challenger, you know, the more people we can get followers spreading the word, the better. And in terms of The next question, where can you find us? Right now, you can find us in all major Scottish cities. So, and very, very soon, we will be coming south of the Scottish border. So we’re looking at Q3 of this year, probably tail end of Q3. And again, you’ll be able to find us in all city fiber dig locations.

Brad:
Nice, a pleasure. We’ve spoken quite a few times over the last few months and it’s always been a good conversation. I value

Duncan Di Biase:
Appreciate it.

Brad:
what you’re doing and I value you as a person. Straight up, I think you’re great. I wish you all the best. Thank you so much for coming on and I hope you get what the business deserves genuinely. I think it’s fantastic in an industry that a lot of people will resonate. on some of the current difficulties. It’s probably the best way of putting

Duncan Di Biase:
Yeah,

Brad:
it. So

Duncan Di Biase:
yeah, no, it’s

Brad:
thank you,

Duncan Di Biase:
not easy.

Brad:
and I hope you enjoyed it.

Duncan Di Biase:
No, I appreciate it, Brad, thank you very much.

Brad:
No worries, no worries. Thank you very much.